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Guaranteed Way to Becoming a Better Seller with Andy Paul

Transcript
Wesleyne Greer:

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

Wesleyne Greer:

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

Wesleyne Greer:

well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

Wesleyne Greer:

how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

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single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

Wesleyne Greer:

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

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technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

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difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

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that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

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develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

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single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

Wesleyne Greer:

listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

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inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

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you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to another

Wesleyne Greer:

episode of the science of selling stem today. I am so

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excited. I feel like I am in the presence of royalty like I'm

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interviewing a podcaster that has been podcasting since before

Wesleyne Greer:

I even knew what a podcast was. Andy Paul, how are you today?

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm fine. Thank you for having me.

Wesleyne Greer:

Let me tell you guys. I mean, like when you're in the presence

Wesleyne Greer:

of royalty, you have to let them know right and podcasting. As we

Wesleyne Greer:

both know, it is a labor of love. So you have been doing it

Wesleyne Greer:

for a long time. Seven years. Let me tell you guys a little

Wesleyne Greer:

bit about Andy. He has a hit podcast accelerates your sales

Wesleyne Greer:t was acquired by ring DNA in:Wesleyne Greer:

renamed as sales enablement with Andy Paul, this show continues

Wesleyne Greer:to inspire:Wesleyne Greer:

has also written two award winning books zero time selling

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an amp up your sales, he is ranked number eight on LinkedIn

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is list of top 50 global sales experts. And he's consulted with

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some of the biggest businesses in the world, including square

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Philips GrubHub and more making him one of the leading voices in

Wesleyne Greer:

the sales industry today. And I think this must have been

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submitted before your latest book came out. But we'll get

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into that later.

Andy Paul:

Yes, a third, a third book. Yes.

Wesleyne Greer:

Book. So how did you start your career and become

Wesleyne Greer:

so amazing that a giant company wanted to buy your podcast?

Andy Paul:

Well, they're actually kind of a smaller

Andy Paul:

company. But still, nonetheless, they wanted to buy it. Yes.

Andy Paul:

Gotcha started my computer in Texas, or I screwed my career in

Andy Paul:

tech sales, selling computer systems to you know, at the time

Andy Paul:

when computer systems were rooms full of equipment

Andy Paul:

back in the day, and did that get promoted to management

Andy Paul:

fairly quickly doing that and enjoyed that, though, you know,

Andy Paul:

sort of under enabled as most managers are in the first jobs,

Andy Paul:

but then had sort of this adventure in Silicon Valley,

Andy Paul:

where I went to work for Apple in very early days of Apple. And

Andy Paul:

that's a variety of other startups and eventually found

Andy Paul:

myself in the satellite communications business where

Andy Paul:

we're selling large, complex satellite communication systems

Andy Paul:

to some of the world's largest companies working for startups,

Andy Paul:

you know, for small companies. So as the challenge was how do

Andy Paul:

we as a small company, go compete for 789 figure deals

Andy Paul:

against really large tech companies and when so that sir,

Andy Paul:that start my own company in:Andy Paul:

which was designed to help small companies learn how to compete

Andy Paul:

for big deals with against a big competitors did that until about

Andy Paul:

10 years ago. And so I started writing my books and Sir, down

Andy Paul:

this path of being sort of sales thought leader, quote, unquote,

Andy Paul:started my podcast in:Andy Paul:elerate, and then acquired in:Andy Paul:with Andy Paul. And now with:Andy Paul:

episodes, I think as of this week, we're still going strong.

Andy Paul:

And yes, just published my my third book sell without selling

Andy Paul:

out.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow. So I want to kind of go all the way back

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to the beginning. And you said something that I think a lot of

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people, they don't quite understand what the term means.

Wesleyne Greer:

So you said you move it from being an individual contributor

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to being a sales manager, but you weren't quite enabled. So

Wesleyne Greer:

help us understand what that means to be enabled as a sales

Wesleyne Greer:

manager?

Andy Paul:

Well, it's a great question, because I don't think

Andy Paul:

any of them really are, unfortunately is, you know, we

Andy Paul:

move people into roles of authority and positions of

Andy Paul:

authority and responsibility without educating them and just

Andy Paul:

some of the basics. Yeah, no one taught me how to coach somebody,

Andy Paul:

right. I mean, I think I became pretty good at it, but it's just

Andy Paul:

through trial and error, right? I wasn't throwing a call

Andy Paul:

teaching me how to do it or training me how to do it. We're

Andy Paul:

in a performance business and sales, right? It's like

Andy Paul:

athletics to some degree or professional sports. When do we

Andy Paul:

ever train sales managers how to help people perform better,

Andy Paul:

right? We tend to say, oh, go make more calls and more emails,

Andy Paul:

so on. But you know, we in this performance business, and we

Andy Paul:

don't teach managers anything about performance improvement,

Andy Paul:

and I serve it on the list. So it's sort of left to fend for

Andy Paul:

yourself. And some people are fortunate, I think I worked for

Andy Paul:

good bosses at several points in my career that, you know, I

Andy Paul:

could see what they did. And, you know, they sort of modeled

Andy Paul:

it for the behavior that I thought was good. So I could

Andy Paul:

take examples from them. But even to this day, we under

Andy Paul:

invest in managers, and it's their really, yes, I've done

Andy Paul:

this couple months, we've polled salespeople said, so where do

Andy Paul:

you learn how to sell? And the biggest influence is not

Andy Paul:

training that's actually on the list of things is relatively low

Andy Paul:

down the list? It's it's their managers, it's their peers?

Andy Paul:

Well, if that's the case, if the managers are the most

Andy Paul:

influential people, oftentimes in a young seller's life and new

Andy Paul:

sellers life, why aren't we helping those managers get

Andy Paul:

better.

Wesleyne Greer:

And like, you're singing my song. I literally,

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm these days, I'm so irritated on LinkedIn, I see all these

Wesleyne Greer:

people, and they are appealing directly to the seller, like,

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I'm gonna teach you how to cold call, I'm gonna teach you how to

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write emails, I'm gonna teach you how to do this, this and

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that. I'm like, you're talking to the wrong people. We need to

Wesleyne Greer:

fix the managers, right? We fix the managers, we fix the team.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so when we talk about enabling sales managers, giving

Wesleyne Greer:

them the playbook or the toolbox, I think that is such a

Wesleyne Greer:

huge gap in our current market space.

Andy Paul:

Oh, absolutely. So I make the case. And this is

Andy Paul:

really not hyperbole, I'm actually serious about this is

Andy Paul:

that you we spend, I think the last estimate, I saw from

Andy Paul:

LinkedIn, May $15 billion a year in sales training in the United

Andy Paul:

States, of which let's just say 90% of it, it's probably more

Andy Paul:

but 90% of it spent on individual contributors, and 10%

Andy Paul:

on managers. And I would advocate that we reverse those

Andy Paul:

percentages, and that if we actually spent 90%, not that we

Andy Paul:

necessarily could on the number of sales managers spend 90% of

Andy Paul:

money on sales managers would actually end up with better

Andy Paul:

results.

Wesleyne Greer:

I 100%. Agree. And I think that when even when

Wesleyne Greer:

you have those sales trainings, right, what did the managers do?

Wesleyne Greer:

They sit in the back of the room, and they're on their

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computer, they're not even paying attention. And then

Wesleyne Greer:

during the breaks, they're like, oh, yeah, hey, what about this

Wesleyne Greer:

deal? What I mean, and so it is such a huge problem. But you're

Wesleyne Greer:

right, if we spent more, even if we split that in half, and did

Wesleyne Greer:

5050, the industry wouldn't like it, because they wouldn't make

Wesleyne Greer:

as much money, right? Because once you enable those sales

Wesleyne Greer:

managers, then the teams follow right along.

Andy Paul:

Right, great. You're 100%? I think, yeah, that

Andy Paul:

doesn't have to be, you know, 90% spent on managers, but a

Andy Paul:

higher fraction, but we just have this cultural issue in

Andy Paul:

sales, which is this assumption that we give somebody a title,

Andy Paul:

they know what they're talking about, which is so unfair to

Andy Paul:

those people in those roles. I feel bad for frontline sales

Andy Paul:

managers in today's environment, because there's so much pressure

Andy Paul:

on them. They have their sales team, especially in the tech

Andy Paul:

business, they've got their AES churning every year, they've got

Andy Paul:

the CROs are only lasting 12 to 15 months, these days. So their

Andy Paul:

supervisors are turning quickly. It's like, let's help them

Andy Paul:

because these are the I think, the most important people in the

Andy Paul:

chain. I mean, yes, the individual contributors do the

Andy Paul:

actual selling for the most part, but these are the people

Andy Paul:

that make the whole thing work to your point.

Wesleyne Greer:you started your business in:Wesleyne Greer:

what was your mindset? Why did you say, You know what, I've

Wesleyne Greer:

done the corporate thing. Now I want to transition and start my

Wesleyne Greer:

own business.

Andy Paul:

It was two things one is was very personal, which was

Andy Paul:

I've been the previous 15 years, I've been traveling extensively

Andy Paul:

over quarter million miles a year type of thing, and a lot of

Andy Paul:

it overseas. And I had missed my daughter's birthday. And I said,

Andy Paul:

Well, that's not me. I don't want to do that. So start my own

Andy Paul:

businesses way to sort of step off the hamster wheel, if you

Andy Paul:

will. And I wanted to be the dad who was there. So having my own

Andy Paul:

business or gaming that flexibility and for at that

Andy Paul:

point, my kids were 12 and 10 is for the next eight years. I was

Andy Paul:

that dad every single lacrosse game soccer game theater

Andy Paul:

performance dance performance. I think people started to take

Andy Paul:

pity on me because like, save a life because he's always here.

Andy Paul:

But I had that flexibility and used it in building my business.

Andy Paul:

I was able to sort of control the schedule to a large degree

Andy Paul:

and so I just didn't miss a thing. And for me that was

Andy Paul:

really important at that time. And yeah, I'm sure I sacrifice

Andy Paul:

income and some other things in life. short term, but yeah, I

Andy Paul:

would never, never regret that at all. So that was one reason.

Andy Paul:

Another reason was just yeah, I'd been in one business for 15

Andy Paul:

years and satellite communications business, and I

Andy Paul:

was ready for a new challenge.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yeah, the quality of life, right. I think

Wesleyne Greer:

a lot of times as salespeople and sales leaders, we, we think

Wesleyne Greer:

that this, it just comes with the territory. And I can

Wesleyne Greer:

remember doing the same thing, I would literally get their

Wesleyne Greer:

calendars the beginning of the school year and put all their

Wesleyne Greer:

stuff on and had to be traveling around it. And sometimes I would

Wesleyne Greer:

like fly in the morning for something that was happening at

Wesleyne Greer:

noon, right? Because I was like, I want to be there. And what

Wesleyne Greer:

that did to me was, I would just be so exhausted, right? And

Wesleyne Greer:

like, You're half one foot in and one foot out. And so like

Wesleyne Greer:

that quality of life, and that balance that when you start your

Wesleyne Greer:

own business, you kind of get that back. But yeah, do you lose

Wesleyne Greer:

the opportunity of making as much money as a fortune 100?

Wesleyne Greer:

company can. But I think that people have to make that

Wesleyne Greer:

decision. What is more important right now in my life?

Andy Paul:

Yeah. And it was temporary, to some degree. But

Andy Paul:

again, I never give those moments back. And quite frankly,

Andy Paul:

missed them. You know, and I don't know how old your kids

Andy Paul:

are. But I mean, it's like, you know, when my son had been very

Andy Paul:

involved in the sport of lacrosse all the way through

Andy Paul:

college, you know, we get to his last game of college, it's like,

Andy Paul:

he was done with it. His mom and I were both like, we're gonna

Andy Paul:

miss this. I mean, you miss the opportunity to see your kids do

Andy Paul:

things. And so yeah, being able to arrange things. So I could do

Andy Paul:

that. I was very fortunate. But it was intentional.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so your business? Was it sales house?

Wesleyne Greer:

was is that the

Andy Paul:

No. So my consulting company called zero time

Andy Paul:

selling, which is the name of my first book. And yeah, so work I

Andy Paul:

did was work primarily with companies that in the early

Andy Paul:

days, the companies that had sort of call mature startups,

Andy Paul:

they had reached a certain point, and then their growth

Andy Paul:

stalled, and oftentimes their serve at a loss to figure out

Andy Paul:

why why they'd lost the recipe, why they've been able to grow

Andy Paul:

successfully for five years or 15 years in some cases. And so

Andy Paul:

yeah, I would come in and analyze the situation and work

Andy Paul:

with the CEO and the sales leadership to turn things

Andy Paul:

around. Hmm.

Wesleyne Greer:

Okay. So very strategic in nature, really

Wesleyne Greer:

diagnosing and understanding what specifically is going on

Wesleyne Greer:

within the organization? Well, and

Andy Paul:

then getting very tactical from an execution

Andy Paul:

standpoint. So that's, for me, the view that actually was with

Andy Paul:

the strategic The second is just the tactical execution on making

Andy Paul:

deals happen. And that's, I love that part. And so I still do

Andy Paul:

that work today, I do it both with companies that deal with

Andy Paul:

individuals, you know, high performing individuals that I

Andy Paul:

coach on a one on one basis that, yeah, this, you're looking

Andy Paul:

for the outside there make a ton of money, and they're hitting

Andy Paul:

their numbers. But you know, these people that want to take

Andy Paul:

it to the next level do even better. Mm hmm.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's awesome. Because, you know, they're, I

Wesleyne Greer:

think that the guys that people always think about when they

Wesleyne Greer:

think about sales consultants, and you know, people in our

Wesleyne Greer:

world is that your sales have to be low, or you have to be like a

Wesleyne Greer:

low performer. But that's not always the thing, right?

Andy Paul:

Exactly. Yeah. Somebody asked me once, you

Andy Paul:

know, how did I, what sort of the profile of the companies

Andy Paul:

that I had worked with? And I'd say, well, by and large, they're

Andy Paul:

all pretty successful. Be like, What do you mean? So yeah, those

Andy Paul:

are the best clients, because they're the ones that say, I

Andy Paul:

know, we can do even better. I had one client, I worked with

Andy Paul:

who he was serial entrepreneur, and I was working with him, I

Andy Paul:

think, on his third company, and he just did that every year. He

Andy Paul:

said, I bring in a consultant, right, as I know that, I don't

Andy Paul:

know everything. And yeah, we're doing pretty well. But I know

Andy Paul:

that I, as a CEO need to get smarter. So I bring people in to

Andy Paul:

help me. And, you know, that's a great perspective to have.

Andy Paul:

Another time somebody asked me, you know, how did you How could

Andy Paul:

you serve, qualify your, your customers, potential clients?

Andy Paul:

And I'd say, Well, this is go and meet them in person. Before

Andy Paul:

we sign the deal. I said, I look at the size, how big of a stack

Andy Paul:

of books they had on their desk. They had a big stack of books.

Andy Paul:

They were my person. If they didn't have books, they weren't

Andy Paul:

going to be my person. And so yeah, I mean, I do think it's

Andy Paul:

funny, but yeah, as a consultant, I've worked with

Andy Paul:

successful companies.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's good. It's not sometimes I used to

Wesleyne Greer:

tell people Oh, I like working with the hot mess. You know, the

Wesleyne Greer:

company gets really messed up, but ya know, it's way too much

Wesleyne Greer:

work. Right. It's a lot of work.

Andy Paul:

Yeah. And you serve if you're in the consulting

Andy Paul:

business, you're listening to your thing about okay, yeah, the

Andy Paul:

temptation is to say, Yeah, I need to look for companies that

Andy Paul:

are really screwed up. And the hot mess isn't, it's like, not

Andy Paul:

really. I mean, you want the people who are dedicated

Andy Paul:

learners. Yeah. Other things. I look for a CEO. So we're members

Andy Paul:

of YPO or e o or Vista. Should I mean they were again, people

Andy Paul:

committed to learning. And so if they were doing that, then

Andy Paul:

again, that was another great for me another great indicator

Andy Paul:

that Yeah, we had a chance of making that successful.

Wesleyne Greer:

So you have written three books thus far.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yeah. Tell me about what was your inspiration for that very

Wesleyne Greer:

first book,

Andy Paul:

I just said, felt like I had a book inside me for

Andy Paul:

a while. And I'd wanted to write one for a long time. And I just

Andy Paul:hadn't. And, yeah,:Andy Paul:

yeah, my wife was just incredibly supportive and urged

Andy Paul:

me to do it knew I had wanted to do it. And yeah, I think she

Andy Paul:

inspired me to invest the time and effort to do it. And like a

Andy Paul:

lot of surf consultants who write books, service calling

Andy Paul:

cards, right, this is a statement of who I am excusing

Andy Paul:

is. Yeah, it sort of caught on though that was unexpected. I

Andy Paul:

didn't think anybody would pay attention to it, quite frankly.

Andy Paul:

And yeah, became so popular and less a one on one Ward, and so

Andy Paul:

on. So it's like, oh, wow, people maybe do want to hear

Andy Paul:

what I have to say. And that sort of started on this path.

Andy Paul:Now three books and:Wesleyne Greer:

So tell us more about because there's so many

Wesleyne Greer:

people who are like, I want to write a book, maybe is it going

Wesleyne Greer:

to be successful? Tell us about some of the tips that you would

Wesleyne Greer:

give some a new author how to make a book successful,

Andy Paul:

still learning that I think, gotten better over the

Andy Paul:

course of three books, I think. So one thing is, there's lots of

Andy Paul:

different publishing options these days. But the one thing

Andy Paul:

everybody needs is everybody needs a really good editor, you

Andy Paul:

whether you are self published, or they work with a hybrid

Andy Paul:

publisher, whether you want to try to do a conventional

Andy Paul:

publisher, a traditional publisher is in terms of making

Andy Paul:

a good product, which is really what you're doing is you need

Andy Paul:

that outside perspective, that's really going to challenge you

Andy Paul:

and and work with you. And and I was really fortunate the

Andy Paul:

unfortunate my first book, I had hired an editor who was okay,

Andy Paul:

but was more sort of following my leads. And then second book

Andy Paul:

with a traditional publisher editor was not very good at all,

Andy Paul:

and didn't really help. But this this book, sell without selling

Andy Paul:

out that just published, our just fantastic editor she worked

Andy Paul:

for the publishers were hand in hand with me for better or four

Andy Paul:

months on the book, maybe even a little bit longer. And it just

Andy Paul:

made all the difference in the world. So in books are really

Andy Paul:

collaborative. And that's the lesson learned after the first

Andy Paul:

two that I actually the first one was that, yeah, it's a

Andy Paul:

collaborative effort. It's the editor, just a big part of it if

Andy Paul:

you find the right person, if the publisher has the right

Andy Paul:

person. So that's one bit advice. The other piece of

Andy Paul:

advice is that if you plan on writing a book, investing the

Andy Paul:

effort, then plan on selling some. And well, you laugh, but I

Andy Paul:

mean, I have a lot of people on my show that want to be guests.

Andy Paul:

And this I've written this book or research the book, and I'll

Andy Paul:

look at and say, Okay, it's been published, you know, it's been

Andy Paul:

on the market for two years and has 20 reviews on Amazon. And

Andy Paul:

it's like, yeah, what are you trying to do to market the book

Andy Paul:

or you went to all this effort. So what I encourage authors, and

Andy Paul:

I actually run a mastermind group for aspiring sales

Andy Paul:

authors, is really invest time to build your platform, right?

Andy Paul:

Build your audience before you sell before you write the book.

Andy Paul:

Because it makes it easier to find an audience for the book.

Andy Paul:

So invest the time, if you want to be a thought leader, which if

Andy Paul:

you want to write a book, clearly you do is invest the

Andy Paul:

time on primarily LinkedIn to build a following to express

Andy Paul:

yourself out there. So even test your material a fuel source, I

Andy Paul:

often use the analogy of LinkedIn or being like the out

Andy Paul:

of town comedy club for a comic that wants to try out their new

Andy Paul:

material. Yeah, that's what LinkedIn is for. It's it's

Andy Paul:

there, it's public. But you're there served to figure out what

Andy Paul:

you think and what you believe in what resonates with an

Andy Paul:

audience. So you're sort of doing market research to some

Andy Paul:

degree. So it's really important if you're thinking about

Andy Paul:

building a book. So I've long are writing a book series, I

Andy Paul:

sort of have a little longer term plan and say, yeah, how am

Andy Paul:

I going to prepare myself for that? Because also, you make

Andy Paul:

yourself more attractive to publishers, if you have an

Andy Paul:

established audience on LinkedIn as well.

Wesleyne Greer:

So one thing that I find so so amazing about

Wesleyne Greer:

the advice that you gave on writing a book, I feel like it's

Wesleyne Greer:

the same thing that you you preach, and you talk about when

Wesleyne Greer:

you say that, hey, yep, you want to be a good sales manager. You

Wesleyne Greer:

want to be a good leader, you need help, right? Your editor

Wesleyne Greer:

that's kind of like your coach, and then you're like, Okay, on

Wesleyne Greer:

LinkedIn, sometimes it might booth sometimes it might not,

Wesleyne Greer:

but you got to try. Right? You got to put yourself out there to

Wesleyne Greer:

at least get moving.

Andy Paul:

Yeah. Well, I think people that I mean, it's you do

Andy Paul:

you feel about the podcast. I know. I do, too, is like when

Andy Paul:

you first started it's like sort of afraid to put yourself out

Andy Paul:

there right? Because you're afraid someone might say

Andy Paul:

something about a negative or whatever. I mean, I remember

Andy Paul:

when I first started doing paid speaking in public I come back

Andy Paul:

from a speaking event, my wife would say, Well, how did it go?

Andy Paul:

I'd say, Well, no one stood up and called me an idiot. So I

Andy Paul:

think it was okay. And that was sort of my bar, right? It's just

Andy Paul:

because you have that fear, when you first start putting yourself

Andy Paul:

out there, you write a book, you put the book out there, it's,

Andy Paul:

you know, even the third book, there's still sort of this

Andy Paul:

trepidation about, you know, somebody's gonna like it. So, in

Andy Paul:

building your audience, in advance of writing a book, you

Andy Paul:

sort of have to conquer that fear to some degree and get

Andy Paul:

accustomed to putting your opinions out there. And for me,

Andy Paul:

the great thing about LinkedIn is not necessarily the quality

Andy Paul:

of what's put out there, because it's on uneven quality, that's

Andy Paul:

fine. But the fact that people are doing it, because I don't

Andy Paul:

know, we don't know where the next great insights is going to

Andy Paul:

come from, and the next great idea is going to come from and I

Andy Paul:

don't think it has to be, yeah, somebody like me, that's been in

Andy Paul:

the business forever. I think how somebody, you know, two

Andy Paul:

years in their career, if they've got this insight about,

Andy Paul:

yeah, there's different way we could do this aspect of selling,

Andy Paul:

put it out there. Let's socialize it.

Wesleyne Greer:

So when you think about thought leadership,

Wesleyne Greer:

what are some of the things that you find most important, because

Wesleyne Greer:

you said, Hey, build your your tribe, your community have a

Wesleyne Greer:

engaging group of people that you almost can kind of drop

Wesleyne Greer:

into, you know, a book launch or whatever you're doing? So when

Wesleyne Greer:

you think about thought leadership, what are some of the

Wesleyne Greer:

things that have not gotten so good for you? And some of the

Wesleyne Greer:

things that you're like, Oh, this is great.

Andy Paul:

Well, you know, the things that are great, it's

Andy Paul:

just, you know, sometimes you write things that people don't

Andy Paul:

like, and that's fine. But it's, it's the consistency is really

Andy Paul:

the key, you just have to commit to doing it and doing it on a

Andy Paul:

frequent basis. And just having a point of view. For me, that's

Andy Paul:

really the important that I think if you're even if you're

Andy Paul:

not a thought leader, as a profession, but you're in sales,

Andy Paul:

you have this increasing obligation to have thought

Andy Paul:

leadership, as part of what you do is we know that buyers

Andy Paul:

current study from RAIN Group two year but two years ago, 82%

Andy Paul:

of buyers look at a seller's LinkedIn profile before they

Andy Paul:

speak with them for the first time, what are they looking for?

Andy Paul:

They're looking for, are you worth investing their time in

Andy Paul:

you? Right? So what do you stand for? What do you believe? Does

Andy Paul:

anybody know? Can they find out by looking at your LinkedIn

Andy Paul:

profile? What separates you from the next salesperson? Because at

Andy Paul:

the end of the day, we know that in the overwhelming majority of

Andy Paul:

cases, the decision, the buyer makes the difference between you

Andy Paul:

and another vendor? Is you the seller. So you know, what's that

Andy Paul:

impression you're creating on the buyer? And when do you start

Andy Paul:

creating that impression? I think it starts if they're

Andy Paul:

looking at your LinkedIn profile, that's gonna be their

Andy Paul:

first impression of you, oftentimes, so what should they

Andy Paul:

find there? And so I think sellers that don't spend some

Andy Paul:

amount of time and we're in this profession is expressing and

Andy Paul:

having an opinion about selling about their customers about

Andy Paul:

their market, their customers, or in so on, it doesn't, you're

Andy Paul:

doing yourself a disservice. And it's so

Wesleyne Greer:

you have this amazing new book sell without

Wesleyne Greer:

selling out, right. And a lot of times, I know that authors

Wesleyne Greer:

thought leaders typically come up with ideas for books based on

Wesleyne Greer:

things that annoy them, it means that they're seeing in the

Wesleyne Greer:

marketplace, or they're like, Okay, you guys are getting it

Wesleyne Greer:

wrong. What was your inspiration for this latest book that you've

Wesleyne Greer:

written?

Andy Paul:

Well, yes, sir. What you said is, is that we're just

Andy Paul:

not and we in b2b selling, we're just not getting better at it.

Andy Paul:r a little such over the last:Andy Paul:

years, we've had this little gold rush of incredible

Andy Paul:

technology, marketing, automation, sales, automation,

Andy Paul:

sales technology. And yet you look at the results that

Andy Paul:

companies are achieving, or individual sellers are

Andy Paul:

achieving. And you look at some of the research that's done. And

Andy Paul:

we see all see the research of a percentage of sales reps

Andy Paul:

setting, quotas dropping when rates are dropping, sellers are

Andy Paul:

turning more frequently with all these data points of saying,

Andy Paul:

Hmm, what's going wrong here? Why aren't we able to take

Andy Paul:

advantage of this technology and do better and do better in the

Andy Paul:

sense of creating better experiences for the buyer? And

Andy Paul:

that's really the bottom line. Right? And so, yeah, just over

Andy Paul:

the course of all the conversations on my podcast, and

Andy Paul:

in my own work with companies, that was just clear that there

Andy Paul:

was sort of this impediment. And I think a lot of the impediment

Andy Paul:

is just how we perceive what our job is as sellers. And yet

Andy Paul:

there's plenty of counter examples. And I just want to

Andy Paul:

draw those out in the book and say, yeah, here's a different

Andy Paul:

path that more focused on the buyer and the experiences the

Andy Paul:

buyer has that to some people may say, Well, gee, seems a

Andy Paul:

little counter to what we're doing seems a little soft,

Andy Paul:

maybe. But the fact is, it's actually a faster path to an

Andy Paul:

order faster path to increasing your win rates. Then sort of the

Andy Paul:

stereotypical salesy behavior that sellers are known for, and

Andy Paul:

that's sellers. Many make buyers cringe when sellers do it.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yes, it's a very, very unfortunate when, as

Wesleyne Greer:

a seller, you're just so in your mind and you're like, This is

Wesleyne Greer:

how things have to go. And I really don't care about you. And

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm just talking, talking and I'm vomiting product

Wesleyne Greer:

information. I'm doing this and I'm doing and it's like, you

Wesleyne Greer:

lost a sale before you even started, like five minutes in

Wesleyne Greer:

the cell was already lost.

Andy Paul:

Oh, yeah, probably 10 seconds? Well, it's as we know

Andy Paul:

that, again, I wrote about this in my second book is this

Andy Paul:

there's this body of science about how people form

Andy Paul:

perceptions of other people. And but one of the things that

Andy Paul:

always stuck in my mind was, we do that within a quarter of a

Andy Paul:

second. So I can figure in the example they use. And so the

Andy Paul:

study was people meeting people, let's say, in a social setting,

Andy Paul:

or a bar man and a woman or potential romantic partner, you

Andy Paul:

make an perception like this. And if you think your buyers

Andy Paul:

aren't doing the same thing about you is you're mistaken

Andy Paul:

they are. And what we know about against from the science of

Andy Paul:

perception is that once a buyer forms a perception of you in

Andy Paul:

their mind, it's very hard for them to change it, even when

Andy Paul:

they're given evidence that directly contradicts that

Andy Paul:

perception. And the example I like to give is, if you imagine

Andy Paul:

that you live on some suburban street somewhere and the police

Andy Paul:

show up at your neighbor's home and drag the guy out of bed and

Andy Paul:

walk away in handcuffs and all the neighbors are out. Looking

Andy Paul:

at what's going on. Now, the day later, police out mistaken

Andy Paul:

identity, not the person at all. Nevermind, what is everything

Andy Paul:

about the neighbor? He's a crook? Something wrong as bad

Andy Paul:

person, even though it's nothing at all right? And the well, this

Andy Paul:

is this is so what happens is if you show up, and yeah, one of my

Andy Paul:

favorites, is you act too familiar too quickly with a

Andy Paul:

buyer, for instance. Yeah, I hate it when mail sellers

Andy Paul:

presumed early in the relationship, they can call a

Andy Paul:

guy buddy or PAL, right? It's just it's off putting to a lot

Andy Paul:

of people, right? You have to earn the right to be able to

Andy Paul:

call somebody that. Well, they formed that perception of you

Andy Paul:

little lazy, doesn't think things through, you know,

Andy Paul:

presumes makes presumptions that shouldn't. Yeah, what's the

Andy Paul:

person would be like to work with going through this process?

Andy Paul:

Maybe not right? Just from that little thing, just like that. So

Andy Paul:

in sales, we have to be incredibly intentional about the

Andy Paul:

impressions we create at all times. And it may seem like a

Andy Paul:

small thing, but it's like saying sales are no small

Andy Paul:

things.

Wesleyne Greer:

No, there aren't. And you know, the old

Wesleyne Greer:

cliche, first impressions. Last is it's true, because I've had

Wesleyne Greer:

people who are like, hey, Wes, I'm like, Excuse me, who gave

Wesleyne Greer:

you permission to call me West? Right? Like, who are you? Like?

Andy Paul:

Right? I mean, you're it affects how you interact with

Andy Paul:

that person. Right? Yeah, I want to post about that on LinkedIn I

Andy Paul:

posted about a couple of times is is young, mostly young male

Andy Paul:

sellers, really hate that, that I call them out on because they

Andy Paul:

think, yeah, we're just we're being ourselves. That's like,

Andy Paul:

No, I I encourage people to be yourself, but you earn the right

Andy Paul:

also, to do certain things. Yeah, much like you earn the

Andy Paul:

right through building trust with the buyer to ask them more

Andy Paul:

detailed questions that force them to reveal information that

Andy Paul:

wouldn't normally reveal. They don't have to just because

Andy Paul:

you're asking a question. They don't have to answer it

Andy Paul:

completely, or fully or truthfully, you earn the right

Andy Paul:

to get that. Yeah. And

Wesleyne Greer:

you know, I think that so many times when we

Wesleyne Greer:

have these, I like to say outside of the box ideas in

Wesleyne Greer:

sales, there are a lot of pushback, right? Because it's

Wesleyne Greer:

like, well, we've been doing this for 15 or 20 years, and

Wesleyne Greer:

it's been working. And you're like, Okay, let's look at the

Wesleyne Greer:

data. Who was it actually working for? Oh, there's top two

Wesleyne Greer:

or three salespeople? Well, what about everyone else? Right? And

Wesleyne Greer:

when you're saying, hey, less people are hitting quota, but

Wesleyne Greer:

maybe the company is still hitting their targets. But if

Wesleyne Greer:

you look at the spread, you only have a small percentage of the

Wesleyne Greer:

team that's doing it right. And so it's like, but we have to

Wesleyne Greer:

give a framework we have to help everyone understand the why and

Wesleyne Greer:

the how don't just give them scripts and tell them to go do

Wesleyne Greer:

it

Andy Paul:

exactly. Couldn't have said it better. Rarely do

Andy Paul:

we give people the why behind the how. And so people have sort

Andy Paul:

of the sin robotic approach to selling and so on. It's one

Andy Paul:

things I tried to accomplish in the book, with my four pillars

Andy Paul:

of selling in is getting the detail about the why behind the

Andy Paul:

how and then provide the high was well, because people need

Andy Paul:

context for why they should act a certain way to your point to

Andy Paul:

about the top two 3%. I would say in most companies, the top

Andy Paul:

performers, they do sell in versus sell out. But they've

Andy Paul:

developed their own style over time. Right. And it's something

Andy Paul:

that's unique to them is why I tried to make it a book is you

Andy Paul:

know, sales managers basically want everybody to comply to a

Andy Paul:

process except you people who are really good. You do what you

Andy Paul:

do. Right? Why is they need to act that way with everybody to

Andy Paul:

help. They've helped those people get to where they were

Andy Paul:

hopefully sales managers. So do it for the rest of the company.

Andy Paul:

The rest of the team is yeah, I always find it very interesting

Andy Paul:

to and I just saw this a couple weeks ago on a post somewhere.

Andy Paul:

Someone was making the camera button Well, you know, sales

Andy Paul:

managers could do a better job. But thing is they spent so much

Andy Paul:

time with the mid to low performers that they just don't

Andy Paul:

have time. I'm like, actually, that's not my experience working

Andy Paul:

with companies as ever, is actually sales managers spend a

Andy Paul:

disproportionate amount of time with their top performers,

Andy Paul:

because they think that's where they're going to achieve their

Andy Paul:

success. And what happens is the middle tier, and the lower tiers

Andy Paul:

get ignored. And that's a huge problem. So, yes, we need to

Andy Paul:

lift all people in the profession and in a specific

Andy Paul:

team. And I think one of the ways to do that is you you

Andy Paul:

enable people to become the best version of themselves as a sales

Andy Paul:

manager. So what I lay out in the book, I said, these four

Andy Paul:

pillars of selling in connection, curiosity,

Andy Paul:

understanding generosity, is these are, these are attributes

Andy Paul:

we all have as human beings to some greater or lesser degree,

Andy Paul:

we need to develop those as managers, because this is how

Andy Paul:

they were naturally in, in a more human way interact with

Andy Paul:

buyers, and enable more likely outcome for them than they would

Andy Paul:

acting somewhere else. Other way. So yeah, managers need to

Andy Paul:

spend more time with those people and let them experiment.

Andy Paul:

Yeah, this is a part that, again, is one of my pet peeves

Andy Paul:

that drives me nuts is managers with middle and lower tiers,

Andy Paul:

they want them to be more compliant to their sales process

Andy Paul:

a little more rigidly managed in terms of activity, I understand

Andy Paul:

you're a little nervous about it. But the path forward with

Andy Paul:

those people is to enable them to build on their unique

Andy Paul:

strengths, because I believe they all have, we all do. And

Andy Paul:

yeah, sort of follow the path I've laid out on the book and

Andy Paul:

that word,

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm so mesmerized, because I've

Wesleyne Greer:

literally just sitting here, and I'm thinking about, you know,

Wesleyne Greer:

there's a popular sales methodology, and I won't call

Wesleyne Greer:

any names, but they try to get everyone to act a certain way.

Wesleyne Greer:

Or if you're not this kind of salesperson, you're not going to

Wesleyne Greer:

be successful. So get everybody on the team to be this kind of

Wesleyne Greer:

salesperson and do it exactly this way. And I advocate for

Wesleyne Greer:

individualized coaching plans, right, every single person on

Wesleyne Greer:

the team is a different person. And if you can level that middle

Wesleyne Greer:

tier up just 10%. And then with the bottom tier 10%, right, your

Wesleyne Greer:

top two, they're going to do what they need to do, they don't

Wesleyne Greer:

need as much of your time, you need to focus on what you can do

Wesleyne Greer:

to let me level them up. Let me level that person up. And once

Wesleyne Greer:

you start looking at each salesperson as a human being not

Wesleyne Greer:

just a block on your revenue spreadsheet, and say, This

Wesleyne Greer:

person needs to be better here. Let me help them in our coaching

Wesleyne Greer:

sessions do this that is the way that we can sell without selling

Wesleyne Greer:

out. Oh, absolutely.

Andy Paul:

I tell people what I write in the book is that the

Andy Paul:

job of a salesperson, it's not to persuade somebody to buy your

Andy Paul:

product, your job as a salesperson is to go out and

Andy Paul:

listen to your buyer, understand what the most important things

Andy Paul:

to them both in terms of the challenges they face and the

Andy Paul:

outcomes they want to achieve. And then help them get that,

Andy Paul:

right. That's our job as sellers. That's our job as a

Andy Paul:

salesperson, as a sales manager. Your job is not to force people

Andy Paul:

to comply to a process your job is to it's gonna sound very

Andy Paul:

familiar, it's to listen to your salespeople, understand what are

Andy Paul:

the most important things to them in terms of you may the

Andy Paul:

skills they need to upskill or maybe the things that the goals

Andy Paul:

they want to achieve in their life, the outcomes they want to

Andy Paul:

achieve in their career, and then help them get that that's

Andy Paul:

your job. Your job is to help your people get the things that

Andy Paul:

are most important to them. And if you think it's anything else,

Andy Paul:

but that then you're missing it, because the path to your own

Andy Paul:

success as a sales manager is doing just these things,

Andy Paul:

understand what's important to your sellers, help them achieve

Andy Paul:

them.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yeah, I like to say if your sales team is

Wesleyne Greer:

failing, you're failing, right? And so if you can't help them

Wesleyne Greer:

get to where they need to go, then you are failing as a sales

Wesleyne Greer:

manager. And it's not about you being up there getting your

Wesleyne Greer:

award and getting a pat on the back and like Yeah, you did so

Wesleyne Greer:

good this quarter. No, it is about knowing that all 510 20

Wesleyne Greer:

people on your team can be up on the podium and you can sit back

Wesleyne Greer:

and say that is a reflection of me. My team is a reflection of

Wesleyne Greer:

me.

Andy Paul:

Well, absolutely. And to that point, right. As we all

Andy Paul:

seen the reports from CSO insights and from bravado just

Andy Paul:

came out with a report. Majority of sales sellers are not hitting

Andy Paul:

their quotas. So whose responsibility is that? It's

Andy Paul:

just what you said it is the managers responsibility. And too

Andy Paul:

many one offs are pointing fingers at the sellers and

Andy Paul:

saying well, they're not doing the work and so on. Well, okay,

Andy Paul:

well, that's still your responsibility is and I think

Andy Paul:

the way that managers need to look at it is assume that you

Andy Paul:

are a manager of a manufacturing plant, and you're making a

Andy Paul:

product. So if 52% of the product coming off here assembly

Andy Paul:

line didn't work to specification, how long would

Andy Paul:

you hold your job? Not long, right? Yeah, that's really what

Andy Paul:

this is, is the sellers, I don't make turn sellers into, you

Andy Paul:

know, a number or something, but they are your product, you are

Andy Paul:

shaping those people. They're your responsibility. So if

Andy Paul:

you're allowing salespeople, either virtually or physically

Andy Paul:

to go out and have conversations with customers that are so

Andy Paul:

ineffective that such a few percentage of them a low

Andy Paul:

percentage of them actually attain quota, that's your

Andy Paul:

responsibility. And now, as we said earlier, we don't

Andy Paul:

necessarily enable sell sales managers to help their people

Andy Paul:

the way they need to in that regard. So it's yeah, we've got

Andy Paul:

multiple steps in this. But yeah, we need to start looking

Andy Paul:

at sales managers is really take it personally, if people that

Andy Paul:

were responsible for aren't hitting their numbers.

Wesleyne Greer:

And you know, a lot of times when we go in, and

Wesleyne Greer:

we're working with companies within our consulting practice,

Wesleyne Greer:

you know, I'll say, Hey, this is where your salespeople are, this

Wesleyne Greer:

is what they need. And a lot of times leadership be like, oh,

Wesleyne Greer:

let's just get rid of them. They're all bad. Let's just

Wesleyne Greer:

replace them. And not doing this and not doing that. And so I

Wesleyne Greer:

just said, Look, each and every person in the eye, whether I'm

Wesleyne Greer:

on Zoom, or in person, and I say, have you given each and

Wesleyne Greer:

every person on this screen 100% of what they need to be

Wesleyne Greer:

successful. And 100% of the time, they say no, so I'm like,

Wesleyne Greer:

you have to give them something before you say go away. If this

Wesleyne Greer:

is your fault, right? And we can talk about this all day, Andy,

Wesleyne Greer:

because this is actually like, this is my heart. I talk about

Wesleyne Greer:

this all the time, sales management enablement, right,

Wesleyne Greer:

and why they're the nucleus of the organization

Andy Paul:

Well, right. But we can't set people up for failure.

Andy Paul:

And this is my concern is so ripe for the pandemic, I spoke

Andy Paul:

to a group of CEOs, they were CEOs of portfolio company of

Andy Paul:

this private equity firm. And as presenting to them, and I went,

Andy Paul:

I said, Well, let me ask you all the questions. Yeah. Whose this

Andy Paul:was toward the end of:Andy Paul:

is going to raise quotas this year? Well, they all raise their

Andy Paul:

hand. Okay. Got it. I said, so, you know, how much we serve,

Andy Paul:

established over baseline was like 12 13%, on average. I said,

Andy Paul:

Great. Okay. So raise your hand, if you've invested sufficiently

Andy Paul:

this year, and your sellers that, you know, their

Andy Paul:

productivity has improved by 13%. Hmm. That sounds

Wesleyne Greer:

like,

Andy Paul:

huh, wow. That's like, we don't tie the ends

Andy Paul:

together. It's like, sure you want to grow, but you have to

Andy Paul:

provide people something to be able to enable them to grow,

Andy Paul:

right? It's how are you adding to their skills? How you're

Andy Paul:

adding to their experience? How are you improving the level of

Andy Paul:

coaching and management they get that can help them achieve at

Andy Paul:

higher levels? Whatever that dimension is? What are you

Andy Paul:

doing, and too often that we just raise the quotas,

Andy Paul:

regardless of those things. And then we wonder why people get

Andy Paul:

frustrated, why they quit, why they turn over quickly. You

Andy Paul:

know, it's a situation that that management leadership is

Andy Paul:

oftentimes creating. So you have to look at the whole the whole

Andy Paul:

picture.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, we've had an amazing conversation. And I

Wesleyne Greer:

do want to wrap up and ask you something, what's the thing that

Wesleyne Greer:

you're most excited about accomplishing personally, or

Wesleyne Greer:

professionally, you talked about your kids and books and this

Wesleyne Greer:

amazing consulting practice. So I don't know how you're gonna

Wesleyne Greer:

get just one. But give me the one.

Andy Paul:

You know, at this point in time, it's fun. I mean,

Andy Paul:

the podcast and the books, I think, but also, you know, my

Andy Paul:

partner in creating the podcast, and in my business has been my

Andy Paul:

son. So, again, as a parent, having the opportunity to watch

Andy Paul:

your kids grow and mature and to have the opportunity to interact

Andy Paul:

with them frequently. Daily as because we're working together.

Andy Paul:

It was Yeah, unexpected. Pleasure and bonus for

Andy Paul:

everything I've done. And yeah, I just remember we're down a

Andy Paul:

similar age, and I sunsets mid 30s. But yeah, I want to talk to

Andy Paul:

my parents once a week, right. And they really have no idea

Andy Paul:

what I was up to in my life in terms of understanding my

Andy Paul:

profession and what I was doing, because at odds what they had

Andy Paul:

done, yeah, good chance to share this with, uh, not my daughter

Andy Paul:

works for me as well. So that's a lot of fun.

Wesleyne Greer:

That is amazing. I would say that is an amazing

Wesleyne Greer:

thing to be able to hang your hat on, right? Both of your

Wesleyne Greer:

kids, they've done their thing and now they've come back and

Wesleyne Greer:

they're working in the business with you. That's awesome. Yeah.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so far,

Andy Paul:

they don't hate me for

Wesleyne Greer:

Awesome, awesome. Awesome. So Andy, what

Wesleyne Greer:

is the one best way that people can get in contact with you if

Wesleyne Greer:

they want to chat with you or engage with you or

Andy Paul:

LinkedIn? So you can follow me on LinkedIn connect

Andy Paul:

with me please connect with me. That'd be great. message me on

Andy Paul:

LinkedIn as well. That's funny. Like many people, it's two

Andy Paul:

inboxes both my my email and LinkedIn but LinkedIn is

Andy Paul:

probably The easiest, most direct way at this point.

Wesleyne Greer:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been

Wesleyne Greer:

an amazing conversation. Thank you for having me. And I would

Wesleyne Greer:

encourage anyone, please pick up a copy of Andy's book. I've read

Wesleyne Greer:

it. It is an amazing book. And I know that your leadership if

Wesleyne Greer:

you're an individual contributor, wherever you fall

Wesleyne Greer:

within the sales organization, it's going to help you to become

Wesleyne Greer:

a better seller. So thanks again for your time and talent and

Wesleyne Greer:

expertise. Andy? Well, thank you for having me. It's been a lot

Wesleyne Greer:

of fun. And that was another episode of the science of

Wesleyne Greer:

selling stem and remember and all that you do transform your

Wesleyne Greer:

sales until next time. Thank you for joining us today on the

Wesleyne Greer:

snack sized sales podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,

Wesleyne Greer:

subscribe and leave us a review. Learn how to continue increasing

Wesleyne Greer:

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Wesleyne Greer:

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Wesleyne Greer:

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Highlights

  • The journey from starting out in tech sales selling computer systems to becoming a successful sales guru, entrepreneur, and podcaster (02:29)
  • What it really means for a sales manager to be enabled (04:14)
  • Stepping off the hamster wheel: Why he decided to transition from corporate to entrepreneurship (08:40)
  • Helping turn around mature startups that have stalled in growth (11:38)
  • The inspiration behind his first book and his advice for new authors (15:11)
  • How to succeed as a thought leader in your space (21:00)
  • Passionate about inspiring salespeople to keep learning and improving (22:54)
  • The importance of understanding how buyers form perceptions of you as a seller (25:26)
  • Achieving sales success by lifting up the lower tier of salespeople on your team just as much as you do with the top performers (29:36)
  • Distinguishing between the job of a salesperson and the job of a sales manager (32:47)
  • Growing your business by enabling your salespeople to grow (36:41)

In this episode of the Science of Selling STEM, I will have a chat with global sales guru, top podcaster, and entrepreneur, Andy Paul. Andy has a hit podcast, Accelerate Your Sales, that was acquired by ringDNA in 2020. It has since been renamed “Sales Enablement with Andy Paul.” This show inspires thousands of sales professionals each week. Andy has also written two award-winning books, “Zero Time Selling” and “Amp Up Your Sales” 

Having sold any kind of item in the past, Andy Paul now coaches and consults CEOs and sales teams. He’s worked with all kinds of companies from start-ups to Fortune 100. He’s ranked #8 on LinkedIn’s list of Top 50 Global Sales Experts and he’s consulted with some of the biggest businesses in the world including Square, Philips, GrubHub, and more, making him one of the leading voices in the sales industry today.

Paul shares his interesting journey, from a start in tech sales to a successful sales career and then transitioning into entrepreneurship. To teach us his strategy for revitalized selling, he will talk about what’s important to your buyers and how you can help them get it with his 4 pillars of selling in. Wanna get better at selling? You’ll learn how in this episode. So stay tuned!

Quotes

“We move salespeople into roles of authority and positions of authority and responsibility without educating them in just some of the basics” – Andy Paul

“A sales manager is the most influential person in a new seller’s life and so we must help managers get better” – Andy Paul

“If we spent 90% of the money on sales managers, we would actually end up with better results” – Andy Paul

“At the end of the day, in an overwhelming majority of cases, the decision the buyer makes, the difference between you and another vendor is you as a seller” – Andy Paul

“Your job as a salesperson is not to persuade somebody to buy your product, your job as a salesperson is to go out and listen to your buyer, understand the most important things to them both in terms of the challenges they face and the outcomes they wanna achieve, and then help them get that” – Andy Paul

Resources Mentioned:

Learn More About Andy in the Links Below:

Connect with Wesleyne Greer:

  • Wesleyne’s Website – https://transformedsales.com/
  • Wesleyne on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesleynegreer/
  • Wesleyne on Facebook – https://web.facebook.com/wesleynegreer
  • Wesleyne on Twitter – https://twitter.com/wesleynegreer

Email Her at WGreer@TransformedSales.com

Transcript
Wesleyne Greer:

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

Wesleyne Greer:

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

Wesleyne Greer:

well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

Wesleyne Greer:

how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

Wesleyne Greer:

single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

Wesleyne Greer:

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

Wesleyne Greer:

technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

Wesleyne Greer:

difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

Wesleyne Greer:

that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

Wesleyne Greer:

develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

Wesleyne Greer:

single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

Wesleyne Greer:

listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

Wesleyne Greer:

inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

Wesleyne Greer:

you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to another

Wesleyne Greer:

episode of the science of selling stem today. I am so

Wesleyne Greer:

excited. I feel like I am in the presence of royalty like I'm

Wesleyne Greer:

interviewing a podcaster that has been podcasting since before

Wesleyne Greer:

I even knew what a podcast was. Andy Paul, how are you today?

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm fine. Thank you for having me.

Wesleyne Greer:

Let me tell you guys. I mean, like when you're in the presence

Wesleyne Greer:

of royalty, you have to let them know right and podcasting. As we

Wesleyne Greer:

both know, it is a labor of love. So you have been doing it

Wesleyne Greer:

for a long time. Seven years. Let me tell you guys a little

Wesleyne Greer:

bit about Andy. He has a hit podcast accelerates your sales

Wesleyne Greer:t was acquired by ring DNA in:Wesleyne Greer:

renamed as sales enablement with Andy Paul, this show continues

Wesleyne Greer:to inspire:Wesleyne Greer:

has also written two award winning books zero time selling

Wesleyne Greer:

an amp up your sales, he is ranked number eight on LinkedIn

Wesleyne Greer:

is list of top 50 global sales experts. And he's consulted with

Wesleyne Greer:

some of the biggest businesses in the world, including square

Wesleyne Greer:

Philips GrubHub and more making him one of the leading voices in

Wesleyne Greer:

the sales industry today. And I think this must have been

Wesleyne Greer:

submitted before your latest book came out. But we'll get

Wesleyne Greer:

into that later.

Andy Paul:

Yes, a third, a third book. Yes.

Wesleyne Greer:

Book. So how did you start your career and become

Wesleyne Greer:

so amazing that a giant company wanted to buy your podcast?

Andy Paul:

Well, they're actually kind of a smaller

Andy Paul:

company. But still, nonetheless, they wanted to buy it. Yes.

Andy Paul:

Gotcha started my computer in Texas, or I screwed my career in

Andy Paul:

tech sales, selling computer systems to you know, at the time

Andy Paul:

when computer systems were rooms full of equipment

Andy Paul:

back in the day, and did that get promoted to management

Andy Paul:

fairly quickly doing that and enjoyed that, though, you know,

Andy Paul:

sort of under enabled as most managers are in the first jobs,

Andy Paul:

but then had sort of this adventure in Silicon Valley,

Andy Paul:

where I went to work for Apple in very early days of Apple. And

Andy Paul:

that's a variety of other startups and eventually found

Andy Paul:

myself in the satellite communications business where

Andy Paul:

we're selling large, complex satellite communication systems

Andy Paul:

to some of the world's largest companies working for startups,

Andy Paul:

you know, for small companies. So as the challenge was how do

Andy Paul:

we as a small company, go compete for 789 figure deals

Andy Paul:

against really large tech companies and when so that sir,

Andy Paul:that start my own company in:Andy Paul:

which was designed to help small companies learn how to compete

Andy Paul:

for big deals with against a big competitors did that until about

Andy Paul:

10 years ago. And so I started writing my books and Sir, down

Andy Paul:

this path of being sort of sales thought leader, quote, unquote,

Andy Paul:started my podcast in:Andy Paul:elerate, and then acquired in:Andy Paul:with Andy Paul. And now with:Andy Paul:

episodes, I think as of this week, we're still going strong.

Andy Paul:

And yes, just published my my third book sell without selling

Andy Paul:

out.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow. So I want to kind of go all the way back

Wesleyne Greer:

to the beginning. And you said something that I think a lot of

Wesleyne Greer:

people, they don't quite understand what the term means.

Wesleyne Greer:

So you said you move it from being an individual contributor

Wesleyne Greer:

to being a sales manager, but you weren't quite enabled. So

Wesleyne Greer:

help us understand what that means to be enabled as a sales

Wesleyne Greer:

manager?

Andy Paul:

Well, it's a great question, because I don't think

Andy Paul:

any of them really are, unfortunately is, you know, we

Andy Paul:

move people into roles of authority and positions of

Andy Paul:

authority and responsibility without educating them and just

Andy Paul:

some of the basics. Yeah, no one taught me how to coach somebody,

Andy Paul:

right. I mean, I think I became pretty good at it, but it's just

Andy Paul:

through trial and error, right? I wasn't throwing a call

Andy Paul:

teaching me how to do it or training me how to do it. We're

Andy Paul:

in a performance business and sales, right? It's like

Andy Paul:

athletics to some degree or professional sports. When do we

Andy Paul:

ever train sales managers how to help people perform better,

Andy Paul:

right? We tend to say, oh, go make more calls and more emails,

Andy Paul:

so on. But you know, we in this performance business, and we

Andy Paul:

don't teach managers anything about performance improvement,

Andy Paul:

and I serve it on the list. So it's sort of left to fend for

Andy Paul:

yourself. And some people are fortunate, I think I worked for

Andy Paul:

good bosses at several points in my career that, you know, I

Andy Paul:

could see what they did. And, you know, they sort of modeled

Andy Paul:

it for the behavior that I thought was good. So I could

Andy Paul:

take examples from them. But even to this day, we under

Andy Paul:

invest in managers, and it's their really, yes, I've done

Andy Paul:

this couple months, we've polled salespeople said, so where do

Andy Paul:

you learn how to sell? And the biggest influence is not

Andy Paul:

training that's actually on the list of things is relatively low

Andy Paul:

down the list? It's it's their managers, it's their peers?

Andy Paul:

Well, if that's the case, if the managers are the most

Andy Paul:

influential people, oftentimes in a young seller's life and new

Andy Paul:

sellers life, why aren't we helping those managers get

Andy Paul:

better.

Wesleyne Greer:

And like, you're singing my song. I literally,

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm these days, I'm so irritated on LinkedIn, I see all these

Wesleyne Greer:

people, and they are appealing directly to the seller, like,

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm gonna teach you how to cold call, I'm gonna teach you how to

Wesleyne Greer:

write emails, I'm gonna teach you how to do this, this and

Wesleyne Greer:

that. I'm like, you're talking to the wrong people. We need to

Wesleyne Greer:

fix the managers, right? We fix the managers, we fix the team.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so when we talk about enabling sales managers, giving

Wesleyne Greer:

them the playbook or the toolbox, I think that is such a

Wesleyne Greer:

huge gap in our current market space.

Andy Paul:

Oh, absolutely. So I make the case. And this is

Andy Paul:

really not hyperbole, I'm actually serious about this is

Andy Paul:

that you we spend, I think the last estimate, I saw from

Andy Paul:

LinkedIn, May $15 billion a year in sales training in the United

Andy Paul:

States, of which let's just say 90% of it, it's probably more

Andy Paul:

but 90% of it spent on individual contributors, and 10%

Andy Paul:

on managers. And I would advocate that we reverse those

Andy Paul:

percentages, and that if we actually spent 90%, not that we

Andy Paul:

necessarily could on the number of sales managers spend 90% of

Andy Paul:

money on sales managers would actually end up with better

Andy Paul:

results.

Wesleyne Greer:

I 100%. Agree. And I think that when even when

Wesleyne Greer:

you have those sales trainings, right, what did the managers do?

Wesleyne Greer:

They sit in the back of the room, and they're on their

Wesleyne Greer:

computer, they're not even paying attention. And then

Wesleyne Greer:

during the breaks, they're like, oh, yeah, hey, what about this

Wesleyne Greer:

deal? What I mean, and so it is such a huge problem. But you're

Wesleyne Greer:

right, if we spent more, even if we split that in half, and did

Wesleyne Greer:

5050, the industry wouldn't like it, because they wouldn't make

Wesleyne Greer:

as much money, right? Because once you enable those sales

Wesleyne Greer:

managers, then the teams follow right along.

Andy Paul:

Right, great. You're 100%? I think, yeah, that

Andy Paul:

doesn't have to be, you know, 90% spent on managers, but a

Andy Paul:

higher fraction, but we just have this cultural issue in

Andy Paul:

sales, which is this assumption that we give somebody a title,

Andy Paul:

they know what they're talking about, which is so unfair to

Andy Paul:

those people in those roles. I feel bad for frontline sales

Andy Paul:

managers in today's environment, because there's so much pressure

Andy Paul:

on them. They have their sales team, especially in the tech

Andy Paul:

business, they've got their AES churning every year, they've got

Andy Paul:

the CROs are only lasting 12 to 15 months, these days. So their

Andy Paul:

supervisors are turning quickly. It's like, let's help them

Andy Paul:

because these are the I think, the most important people in the

Andy Paul:

chain. I mean, yes, the individual contributors do the

Andy Paul:

actual selling for the most part, but these are the people

Andy Paul:

that make the whole thing work to your point.

Wesleyne Greer:you started your business in:Wesleyne Greer:

what was your mindset? Why did you say, You know what, I've

Wesleyne Greer:

done the corporate thing. Now I want to transition and start my

Wesleyne Greer:

own business.

Andy Paul:

It was two things one is was very personal, which was

Andy Paul:

I've been the previous 15 years, I've been traveling extensively

Andy Paul:

over quarter million miles a year type of thing, and a lot of

Andy Paul:

it overseas. And I had missed my daughter's birthday. And I said,

Andy Paul:

Well, that's not me. I don't want to do that. So start my own

Andy Paul:

businesses way to sort of step off the hamster wheel, if you

Andy Paul:

will. And I wanted to be the dad who was there. So having my own

Andy Paul:

business or gaming that flexibility and for at that

Andy Paul:

point, my kids were 12 and 10 is for the next eight years. I was

Andy Paul:

that dad every single lacrosse game soccer game theater

Andy Paul:

performance dance performance. I think people started to take

Andy Paul:

pity on me because like, save a life because he's always here.

Andy Paul:

But I had that flexibility and used it in building my business.

Andy Paul:

I was able to sort of control the schedule to a large degree

Andy Paul:

and so I just didn't miss a thing. And for me that was

Andy Paul:

really important at that time. And yeah, I'm sure I sacrifice

Andy Paul:

income and some other things in life. short term, but yeah, I

Andy Paul:

would never, never regret that at all. So that was one reason.

Andy Paul:

Another reason was just yeah, I'd been in one business for 15

Andy Paul:

years and satellite communications business, and I

Andy Paul:

was ready for a new challenge.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yeah, the quality of life, right. I think

Wesleyne Greer:

a lot of times as salespeople and sales leaders, we, we think

Wesleyne Greer:

that this, it just comes with the territory. And I can

Wesleyne Greer:

remember doing the same thing, I would literally get their

Wesleyne Greer:

calendars the beginning of the school year and put all their

Wesleyne Greer:

stuff on and had to be traveling around it. And sometimes I would

Wesleyne Greer:

like fly in the morning for something that was happening at

Wesleyne Greer:

noon, right? Because I was like, I want to be there. And what

Wesleyne Greer:

that did to me was, I would just be so exhausted, right? And

Wesleyne Greer:

like, You're half one foot in and one foot out. And so like

Wesleyne Greer:

that quality of life, and that balance that when you start your

Wesleyne Greer:

own business, you kind of get that back. But yeah, do you lose

Wesleyne Greer:

the opportunity of making as much money as a fortune 100?

Wesleyne Greer:

company can. But I think that people have to make that

Wesleyne Greer:

decision. What is more important right now in my life?

Andy Paul:

Yeah. And it was temporary, to some degree. But

Andy Paul:

again, I never give those moments back. And quite frankly,

Andy Paul:

missed them. You know, and I don't know how old your kids

Andy Paul:

are. But I mean, it's like, you know, when my son had been very

Andy Paul:

involved in the sport of lacrosse all the way through

Andy Paul:

college, you know, we get to his last game of college, it's like,

Andy Paul:

he was done with it. His mom and I were both like, we're gonna

Andy Paul:

miss this. I mean, you miss the opportunity to see your kids do

Andy Paul:

things. And so yeah, being able to arrange things. So I could do

Andy Paul:

that. I was very fortunate. But it was intentional.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so your business? Was it sales house?

Wesleyne Greer:

was is that the

Andy Paul:

No. So my consulting company called zero time

Andy Paul:

selling, which is the name of my first book. And yeah, so work I

Andy Paul:

did was work primarily with companies that in the early

Andy Paul:

days, the companies that had sort of call mature startups,

Andy Paul:

they had reached a certain point, and then their growth

Andy Paul:

stalled, and oftentimes their serve at a loss to figure out

Andy Paul:

why why they'd lost the recipe, why they've been able to grow

Andy Paul:

successfully for five years or 15 years in some cases. And so

Andy Paul:

yeah, I would come in and analyze the situation and work

Andy Paul:

with the CEO and the sales leadership to turn things

Andy Paul:

around. Hmm.

Wesleyne Greer:

Okay. So very strategic in nature, really

Wesleyne Greer:

diagnosing and understanding what specifically is going on

Wesleyne Greer:

within the organization? Well, and

Andy Paul:

then getting very tactical from an execution

Andy Paul:

standpoint. So that's, for me, the view that actually was with

Andy Paul:

the strategic The second is just the tactical execution on making

Andy Paul:

deals happen. And that's, I love that part. And so I still do

Andy Paul:

that work today, I do it both with companies that deal with

Andy Paul:

individuals, you know, high performing individuals that I

Andy Paul:

coach on a one on one basis that, yeah, this, you're looking

Andy Paul:

for the outside there make a ton of money, and they're hitting

Andy Paul:

their numbers. But you know, these people that want to take

Andy Paul:

it to the next level do even better. Mm hmm.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's awesome. Because, you know, they're, I

Wesleyne Greer:

think that the guys that people always think about when they

Wesleyne Greer:

think about sales consultants, and you know, people in our

Wesleyne Greer:

world is that your sales have to be low, or you have to be like a

Wesleyne Greer:

low performer. But that's not always the thing, right?

Andy Paul:

Exactly. Yeah. Somebody asked me once, you

Andy Paul:

know, how did I, what sort of the profile of the companies

Andy Paul:

that I had worked with? And I'd say, well, by and large, they're

Andy Paul:

all pretty successful. Be like, What do you mean? So yeah, those

Andy Paul:

are the best clients, because they're the ones that say, I

Andy Paul:

know, we can do even better. I had one client, I worked with

Andy Paul:

who he was serial entrepreneur, and I was working with him, I

Andy Paul:

think, on his third company, and he just did that every year. He

Andy Paul:

said, I bring in a consultant, right, as I know that, I don't

Andy Paul:

know everything. And yeah, we're doing pretty well. But I know

Andy Paul:

that I, as a CEO need to get smarter. So I bring people in to

Andy Paul:

help me. And, you know, that's a great perspective to have.

Andy Paul:

Another time somebody asked me, you know, how did you How could

Andy Paul:

you serve, qualify your, your customers, potential clients?

Andy Paul:

And I'd say, Well, this is go and meet them in person. Before

Andy Paul:

we sign the deal. I said, I look at the size, how big of a stack

Andy Paul:

of books they had on their desk. They had a big stack of books.

Andy Paul:

They were my person. If they didn't have books, they weren't

Andy Paul:

going to be my person. And so yeah, I mean, I do think it's

Andy Paul:

funny, but yeah, as a consultant, I've worked with

Andy Paul:

successful companies.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's good. It's not sometimes I used to

Wesleyne Greer:

tell people Oh, I like working with the hot mess. You know, the

Wesleyne Greer:

company gets really messed up, but ya know, it's way too much

Wesleyne Greer:

work. Right. It's a lot of work.

Andy Paul:

Yeah. And you serve if you're in the consulting

Andy Paul:

business, you're listening to your thing about okay, yeah, the

Andy Paul:

temptation is to say, Yeah, I need to look for companies that

Andy Paul:

are really screwed up. And the hot mess isn't, it's like, not

Andy Paul:

really. I mean, you want the people who are dedicated

Andy Paul:

learners. Yeah. Other things. I look for a CEO. So we're members

Andy Paul:

of YPO or e o or Vista. Should I mean they were again, people

Andy Paul:

committed to learning. And so if they were doing that, then

Andy Paul:

again, that was another great for me another great indicator

Andy Paul:

that Yeah, we had a chance of making that successful.

Wesleyne Greer:

So you have written three books thus far.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yeah. Tell me about what was your inspiration for that very

Wesleyne Greer:

first book,

Andy Paul:

I just said, felt like I had a book inside me for

Andy Paul:

a while. And I'd wanted to write one for a long time. And I just

Andy Paul:hadn't. And, yeah,:Andy Paul:

yeah, my wife was just incredibly supportive and urged

Andy Paul:

me to do it knew I had wanted to do it. And yeah, I think she

Andy Paul:

inspired me to invest the time and effort to do it. And like a

Andy Paul:

lot of surf consultants who write books, service calling

Andy Paul:

cards, right, this is a statement of who I am excusing

Andy Paul:

is. Yeah, it sort of caught on though that was unexpected. I

Andy Paul:

didn't think anybody would pay attention to it, quite frankly.

Andy Paul:

And yeah, became so popular and less a one on one Ward, and so

Andy Paul:

on. So it's like, oh, wow, people maybe do want to hear

Andy Paul:

what I have to say. And that sort of started on this path.

Andy Paul:Now three books and:Wesleyne Greer:

So tell us more about because there's so many

Wesleyne Greer:

people who are like, I want to write a book, maybe is it going

Wesleyne Greer:

to be successful? Tell us about some of the tips that you would

Wesleyne Greer:

give some a new author how to make a book successful,

Andy Paul:

still learning that I think, gotten better over the

Andy Paul:

course of three books, I think. So one thing is, there's lots of

Andy Paul:

different publishing options these days. But the one thing

Andy Paul:

everybody needs is everybody needs a really good editor, you

Andy Paul:

whether you are self published, or they work with a hybrid

Andy Paul:

publisher, whether you want to try to do a conventional

Andy Paul:

publisher, a traditional publisher is in terms of making

Andy Paul:

a good product, which is really what you're doing is you need

Andy Paul:

that outside perspective, that's really going to challenge you

Andy Paul:

and and work with you. And and I was really fortunate the

Andy Paul:

unfortunate my first book, I had hired an editor who was okay,

Andy Paul:

but was more sort of following my leads. And then second book

Andy Paul:

with a traditional publisher editor was not very good at all,

Andy Paul:

and didn't really help. But this this book, sell without selling

Andy Paul:

out that just published, our just fantastic editor she worked

Andy Paul:

for the publishers were hand in hand with me for better or four

Andy Paul:

months on the book, maybe even a little bit longer. And it just

Andy Paul:

made all the difference in the world. So in books are really

Andy Paul:

collaborative. And that's the lesson learned after the first

Andy Paul:

two that I actually the first one was that, yeah, it's a

Andy Paul:

collaborative effort. It's the editor, just a big part of it if

Andy Paul:

you find the right person, if the publisher has the right

Andy Paul:

person. So that's one bit advice. The other piece of

Andy Paul:

advice is that if you plan on writing a book, investing the

Andy Paul:

effort, then plan on selling some. And well, you laugh, but I

Andy Paul:

mean, I have a lot of people on my show that want to be guests.

Andy Paul:

And this I've written this book or research the book, and I'll

Andy Paul:

look at and say, Okay, it's been published, you know, it's been

Andy Paul:

on the market for two years and has 20 reviews on Amazon. And

Andy Paul:

it's like, yeah, what are you trying to do to market the book

Andy Paul:

or you went to all this effort. So what I encourage authors, and

Andy Paul:

I actually run a mastermind group for aspiring sales

Andy Paul:

authors, is really invest time to build your platform, right?

Andy Paul:

Build your audience before you sell before you write the book.

Andy Paul:

Because it makes it easier to find an audience for the book.

Andy Paul:

So invest the time, if you want to be a thought leader, which if

Andy Paul:

you want to write a book, clearly you do is invest the

Andy Paul:

time on primarily LinkedIn to build a following to express

Andy Paul:

yourself out there. So even test your material a fuel source, I

Andy Paul:

often use the analogy of LinkedIn or being like the out

Andy Paul:

of town comedy club for a comic that wants to try out their new

Andy Paul:

material. Yeah, that's what LinkedIn is for. It's it's

Andy Paul:

there, it's public. But you're there served to figure out what

Andy Paul:

you think and what you believe in what resonates with an

Andy Paul:

audience. So you're sort of doing market research to some

Andy Paul:

degree. So it's really important if you're thinking about

Andy Paul:

building a book. So I've long are writing a book series, I

Andy Paul:

sort of have a little longer term plan and say, yeah, how am

Andy Paul:

I going to prepare myself for that? Because also, you make

Andy Paul:

yourself more attractive to publishers, if you have an

Andy Paul:

established audience on LinkedIn as well.

Wesleyne Greer:

So one thing that I find so so amazing about

Wesleyne Greer:

the advice that you gave on writing a book, I feel like it's

Wesleyne Greer:

the same thing that you you preach, and you talk about when

Wesleyne Greer:

you say that, hey, yep, you want to be a good sales manager. You

Wesleyne Greer:

want to be a good leader, you need help, right? Your editor

Wesleyne Greer:

that's kind of like your coach, and then you're like, Okay, on

Wesleyne Greer:

LinkedIn, sometimes it might booth sometimes it might not,

Wesleyne Greer:

but you got to try. Right? You got to put yourself out there to

Wesleyne Greer:

at least get moving.

Andy Paul:

Yeah. Well, I think people that I mean, it's you do

Andy Paul:

you feel about the podcast. I know. I do, too, is like when

Andy Paul:

you first started it's like sort of afraid to put yourself out

Andy Paul:

there right? Because you're afraid someone might say

Andy Paul:

something about a negative or whatever. I mean, I remember

Andy Paul:

when I first started doing paid speaking in public I come back

Andy Paul:

from a speaking event, my wife would say, Well, how did it go?

Andy Paul:

I'd say, Well, no one stood up and called me an idiot. So I

Andy Paul:

think it was okay. And that was sort of my bar, right? It's just

Andy Paul:

because you have that fear, when you first start putting yourself

Andy Paul:

out there, you write a book, you put the book out there, it's,

Andy Paul:

you know, even the third book, there's still sort of this

Andy Paul:

trepidation about, you know, somebody's gonna like it. So, in

Andy Paul:

building your audience, in advance of writing a book, you

Andy Paul:

sort of have to conquer that fear to some degree and get

Andy Paul:

accustomed to putting your opinions out there. And for me,

Andy Paul:

the great thing about LinkedIn is not necessarily the quality

Andy Paul:

of what's put out there, because it's on uneven quality, that's

Andy Paul:

fine. But the fact that people are doing it, because I don't

Andy Paul:

know, we don't know where the next great insights is going to

Andy Paul:

come from, and the next great idea is going to come from and I

Andy Paul:

don't think it has to be, yeah, somebody like me, that's been in

Andy Paul:

the business forever. I think how somebody, you know, two

Andy Paul:

years in their career, if they've got this insight about,

Andy Paul:

yeah, there's different way we could do this aspect of selling,

Andy Paul:

put it out there. Let's socialize it.

Wesleyne Greer:

So when you think about thought leadership,

Wesleyne Greer:

what are some of the things that you find most important, because

Wesleyne Greer:

you said, Hey, build your your tribe, your community have a

Wesleyne Greer:

engaging group of people that you almost can kind of drop

Wesleyne Greer:

into, you know, a book launch or whatever you're doing? So when

Wesleyne Greer:

you think about thought leadership, what are some of the

Wesleyne Greer:

things that have not gotten so good for you? And some of the

Wesleyne Greer:

things that you're like, Oh, this is great.

Andy Paul:

Well, you know, the things that are great, it's

Andy Paul:

just, you know, sometimes you write things that people don't

Andy Paul:

like, and that's fine. But it's, it's the consistency is really

Andy Paul:

the key, you just have to commit to doing it and doing it on a

Andy Paul:

frequent basis. And just having a point of view. For me, that's

Andy Paul:

really the important that I think if you're even if you're

Andy Paul:

not a thought leader, as a profession, but you're in sales,

Andy Paul:

you have this increasing obligation to have thought

Andy Paul:

leadership, as part of what you do is we know that buyers

Andy Paul:

current study from RAIN Group two year but two years ago, 82%

Andy Paul:

of buyers look at a seller's LinkedIn profile before they

Andy Paul:

speak with them for the first time, what are they looking for?

Andy Paul:

They're looking for, are you worth investing their time in

Andy Paul:

you? Right? So what do you stand for? What do you believe? Does

Andy Paul:

anybody know? Can they find out by looking at your LinkedIn

Andy Paul:

profile? What separates you from the next salesperson? Because at

Andy Paul:

the end of the day, we know that in the overwhelming majority of

Andy Paul:

cases, the decision, the buyer makes the difference between you

Andy Paul:

and another vendor? Is you the seller. So you know, what's that

Andy Paul:

impression you're creating on the buyer? And when do you start

Andy Paul:

creating that impression? I think it starts if they're

Andy Paul:

looking at your LinkedIn profile, that's gonna be their

Andy Paul:

first impression of you, oftentimes, so what should they

Andy Paul:

find there? And so I think sellers that don't spend some

Andy Paul:

amount of time and we're in this profession is expressing and

Andy Paul:

having an opinion about selling about their customers about

Andy Paul:

their market, their customers, or in so on, it doesn't, you're

Andy Paul:

doing yourself a disservice. And it's so

Wesleyne Greer:

you have this amazing new book sell without

Wesleyne Greer:

selling out, right. And a lot of times, I know that authors

Wesleyne Greer:

thought leaders typically come up with ideas for books based on

Wesleyne Greer:

things that annoy them, it means that they're seeing in the

Wesleyne Greer:

marketplace, or they're like, Okay, you guys are getting it

Wesleyne Greer:

wrong. What was your inspiration for this latest book that you've

Wesleyne Greer:

written?

Andy Paul:

Well, yes, sir. What you said is, is that we're just

Andy Paul:

not and we in b2b selling, we're just not getting better at it.

Andy Paul:r a little such over the last:Andy Paul:

years, we've had this little gold rush of incredible

Andy Paul:

technology, marketing, automation, sales, automation,

Andy Paul:

sales technology. And yet you look at the results that

Andy Paul:

companies are achieving, or individual sellers are

Andy Paul:

achieving. And you look at some of the research that's done. And

Andy Paul:

we see all see the research of a percentage of sales reps

Andy Paul:

setting, quotas dropping when rates are dropping, sellers are

Andy Paul:

turning more frequently with all these data points of saying,

Andy Paul:

Hmm, what's going wrong here? Why aren't we able to take

Andy Paul:

advantage of this technology and do better and do better in the

Andy Paul:

sense of creating better experiences for the buyer? And

Andy Paul:

that's really the bottom line. Right? And so, yeah, just over

Andy Paul:

the course of all the conversations on my podcast, and

Andy Paul:

in my own work with companies, that was just clear that there

Andy Paul:

was sort of this impediment. And I think a lot of the impediment

Andy Paul:

is just how we perceive what our job is as sellers. And yet

Andy Paul:

there's plenty of counter examples. And I just want to

Andy Paul:

draw those out in the book and say, yeah, here's a different

Andy Paul:

path that more focused on the buyer and the experiences the

Andy Paul:

buyer has that to some people may say, Well, gee, seems a

Andy Paul:

little counter to what we're doing seems a little soft,

Andy Paul:

maybe. But the fact is, it's actually a faster path to an

Andy Paul:

order faster path to increasing your win rates. Then sort of the

Andy Paul:

stereotypical salesy behavior that sellers are known for, and

Andy Paul:

that's sellers. Many make buyers cringe when sellers do it.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yes, it's a very, very unfortunate when, as

Wesleyne Greer:

a seller, you're just so in your mind and you're like, This is

Wesleyne Greer:

how things have to go. And I really don't care about you. And

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm just talking, talking and I'm vomiting product

Wesleyne Greer:

information. I'm doing this and I'm doing and it's like, you

Wesleyne Greer:

lost a sale before you even started, like five minutes in

Wesleyne Greer:

the cell was already lost.

Andy Paul:

Oh, yeah, probably 10 seconds? Well, it's as we know

Andy Paul:

that, again, I wrote about this in my second book is this

Andy Paul:

there's this body of science about how people form

Andy Paul:

perceptions of other people. And but one of the things that

Andy Paul:

always stuck in my mind was, we do that within a quarter of a

Andy Paul:

second. So I can figure in the example they use. And so the

Andy Paul:

study was people meeting people, let's say, in a social setting,

Andy Paul:

or a bar man and a woman or potential romantic partner, you

Andy Paul:

make an perception like this. And if you think your buyers

Andy Paul:

aren't doing the same thing about you is you're mistaken

Andy Paul:

they are. And what we know about against from the science of

Andy Paul:

perception is that once a buyer forms a perception of you in

Andy Paul:

their mind, it's very hard for them to change it, even when

Andy Paul:

they're given evidence that directly contradicts that

Andy Paul:

perception. And the example I like to give is, if you imagine

Andy Paul:

that you live on some suburban street somewhere and the police

Andy Paul:

show up at your neighbor's home and drag the guy out of bed and

Andy Paul:

walk away in handcuffs and all the neighbors are out. Looking

Andy Paul:

at what's going on. Now, the day later, police out mistaken

Andy Paul:

identity, not the person at all. Nevermind, what is everything

Andy Paul:

about the neighbor? He's a crook? Something wrong as bad

Andy Paul:

person, even though it's nothing at all right? And the well, this

Andy Paul:

is this is so what happens is if you show up, and yeah, one of my

Andy Paul:

favorites, is you act too familiar too quickly with a

Andy Paul:

buyer, for instance. Yeah, I hate it when mail sellers

Andy Paul:

presumed early in the relationship, they can call a

Andy Paul:

guy buddy or PAL, right? It's just it's off putting to a lot

Andy Paul:

of people, right? You have to earn the right to be able to

Andy Paul:

call somebody that. Well, they formed that perception of you

Andy Paul:

little lazy, doesn't think things through, you know,

Andy Paul:

presumes makes presumptions that shouldn't. Yeah, what's the

Andy Paul:

person would be like to work with going through this process?

Andy Paul:

Maybe not right? Just from that little thing, just like that. So

Andy Paul:

in sales, we have to be incredibly intentional about the

Andy Paul:

impressions we create at all times. And it may seem like a

Andy Paul:

small thing, but it's like saying sales are no small

Andy Paul:

things.

Wesleyne Greer:

No, there aren't. And you know, the old

Wesleyne Greer:

cliche, first impressions. Last is it's true, because I've had

Wesleyne Greer:

people who are like, hey, Wes, I'm like, Excuse me, who gave

Wesleyne Greer:

you permission to call me West? Right? Like, who are you? Like?

Andy Paul:

Right? I mean, you're it affects how you interact with

Andy Paul:

that person. Right? Yeah, I want to post about that on LinkedIn I

Andy Paul:

posted about a couple of times is is young, mostly young male

Andy Paul:

sellers, really hate that, that I call them out on because they

Andy Paul:

think, yeah, we're just we're being ourselves. That's like,

Andy Paul:

No, I I encourage people to be yourself, but you earn the right

Andy Paul:

also, to do certain things. Yeah, much like you earn the

Andy Paul:

right through building trust with the buyer to ask them more

Andy Paul:

detailed questions that force them to reveal information that

Andy Paul:

wouldn't normally reveal. They don't have to just because

Andy Paul:

you're asking a question. They don't have to answer it

Andy Paul:

completely, or fully or truthfully, you earn the right

Andy Paul:

to get that. Yeah. And

Wesleyne Greer:

you know, I think that so many times when we

Wesleyne Greer:

have these, I like to say outside of the box ideas in

Wesleyne Greer:

sales, there are a lot of pushback, right? Because it's

Wesleyne Greer:

like, well, we've been doing this for 15 or 20 years, and

Wesleyne Greer:

it's been working. And you're like, Okay, let's look at the

Wesleyne Greer:

data. Who was it actually working for? Oh, there's top two

Wesleyne Greer:

or three salespeople? Well, what about everyone else? Right? And

Wesleyne Greer:

when you're saying, hey, less people are hitting quota, but

Wesleyne Greer:

maybe the company is still hitting their targets. But if

Wesleyne Greer:

you look at the spread, you only have a small percentage of the

Wesleyne Greer:

team that's doing it right. And so it's like, but we have to

Wesleyne Greer:

give a framework we have to help everyone understand the why and

Wesleyne Greer:

the how don't just give them scripts and tell them to go do

Wesleyne Greer:

it

Andy Paul:

exactly. Couldn't have said it better. Rarely do

Andy Paul:

we give people the why behind the how. And so people have sort

Andy Paul:

of the sin robotic approach to selling and so on. It's one

Andy Paul:

things I tried to accomplish in the book, with my four pillars

Andy Paul:

of selling in is getting the detail about the why behind the

Andy Paul:

how and then provide the high was well, because people need

Andy Paul:

context for why they should act a certain way to your point to

Andy Paul:

about the top two 3%. I would say in most companies, the top

Andy Paul:

performers, they do sell in versus sell out. But they've

Andy Paul:

developed their own style over time. Right. And it's something

Andy Paul:

that's unique to them is why I tried to make it a book is you

Andy Paul:

know, sales managers basically want everybody to comply to a

Andy Paul:

process except you people who are really good. You do what you

Andy Paul:

do. Right? Why is they need to act that way with everybody to

Andy Paul:

help. They've helped those people get to where they were

Andy Paul:

hopefully sales managers. So do it for the rest of the company.

Andy Paul:

The rest of the team is yeah, I always find it very interesting

Andy Paul:

to and I just saw this a couple weeks ago on a post somewhere.

Andy Paul:

Someone was making the camera button Well, you know, sales

Andy Paul:

managers could do a better job. But thing is they spent so much

Andy Paul:

time with the mid to low performers that they just don't

Andy Paul:

have time. I'm like, actually, that's not my experience working

Andy Paul:

with companies as ever, is actually sales managers spend a

Andy Paul:

disproportionate amount of time with their top performers,

Andy Paul:

because they think that's where they're going to achieve their

Andy Paul:

success. And what happens is the middle tier, and the lower tiers

Andy Paul:

get ignored. And that's a huge problem. So, yes, we need to

Andy Paul:

lift all people in the profession and in a specific

Andy Paul:

team. And I think one of the ways to do that is you you

Andy Paul:

enable people to become the best version of themselves as a sales

Andy Paul:

manager. So what I lay out in the book, I said, these four

Andy Paul:

pillars of selling in connection, curiosity,

Andy Paul:

understanding generosity, is these are, these are attributes

Andy Paul:

we all have as human beings to some greater or lesser degree,

Andy Paul:

we need to develop those as managers, because this is how

Andy Paul:

they were naturally in, in a more human way interact with

Andy Paul:

buyers, and enable more likely outcome for them than they would

Andy Paul:

acting somewhere else. Other way. So yeah, managers need to

Andy Paul:

spend more time with those people and let them experiment.

Andy Paul:

Yeah, this is a part that, again, is one of my pet peeves

Andy Paul:

that drives me nuts is managers with middle and lower tiers,

Andy Paul:

they want them to be more compliant to their sales process

Andy Paul:

a little more rigidly managed in terms of activity, I understand

Andy Paul:

you're a little nervous about it. But the path forward with

Andy Paul:

those people is to enable them to build on their unique

Andy Paul:

strengths, because I believe they all have, we all do. And

Andy Paul:

yeah, sort of follow the path I've laid out on the book and

Andy Paul:

that word,

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm so mesmerized, because I've

Wesleyne Greer:

literally just sitting here, and I'm thinking about, you know,

Wesleyne Greer:

there's a popular sales methodology, and I won't call

Wesleyne Greer:

any names, but they try to get everyone to act a certain way.

Wesleyne Greer:

Or if you're not this kind of salesperson, you're not going to

Wesleyne Greer:

be successful. So get everybody on the team to be this kind of

Wesleyne Greer:

salesperson and do it exactly this way. And I advocate for

Wesleyne Greer:

individualized coaching plans, right, every single person on

Wesleyne Greer:

the team is a different person. And if you can level that middle

Wesleyne Greer:

tier up just 10%. And then with the bottom tier 10%, right, your

Wesleyne Greer:

top two, they're going to do what they need to do, they don't

Wesleyne Greer:

need as much of your time, you need to focus on what you can do

Wesleyne Greer:

to let me level them up. Let me level that person up. And once

Wesleyne Greer:

you start looking at each salesperson as a human being not

Wesleyne Greer:

just a block on your revenue spreadsheet, and say, This

Wesleyne Greer:

person needs to be better here. Let me help them in our coaching

Wesleyne Greer:

sessions do this that is the way that we can sell without selling

Wesleyne Greer:

out. Oh, absolutely.

Andy Paul:

I tell people what I write in the book is that the

Andy Paul:

job of a salesperson, it's not to persuade somebody to buy your

Andy Paul:

product, your job as a salesperson is to go out and

Andy Paul:

listen to your buyer, understand what the most important things

Andy Paul:

to them both in terms of the challenges they face and the

Andy Paul:

outcomes they want to achieve. And then help them get that,

Andy Paul:

right. That's our job as sellers. That's our job as a

Andy Paul:

salesperson, as a sales manager. Your job is not to force people

Andy Paul:

to comply to a process your job is to it's gonna sound very

Andy Paul:

familiar, it's to listen to your salespeople, understand what are

Andy Paul:

the most important things to them in terms of you may the

Andy Paul:

skills they need to upskill or maybe the things that the goals

Andy Paul:

they want to achieve in their life, the outcomes they want to

Andy Paul:

achieve in their career, and then help them get that that's

Andy Paul:

your job. Your job is to help your people get the things that

Andy Paul:

are most important to them. And if you think it's anything else,

Andy Paul:

but that then you're missing it, because the path to your own

Andy Paul:

success as a sales manager is doing just these things,

Andy Paul:

understand what's important to your sellers, help them achieve

Andy Paul:

them.

Wesleyne Greer:

Yeah, I like to say if your sales team is

Wesleyne Greer:

failing, you're failing, right? And so if you can't help them

Wesleyne Greer:

get to where they need to go, then you are failing as a sales

Wesleyne Greer:

manager. And it's not about you being up there getting your

Wesleyne Greer:

award and getting a pat on the back and like Yeah, you did so

Wesleyne Greer:

good this quarter. No, it is about knowing that all 510 20

Wesleyne Greer:

people on your team can be up on the podium and you can sit back

Wesleyne Greer:

and say that is a reflection of me. My team is a reflection of

Wesleyne Greer:

me.

Andy Paul:

Well, absolutely. And to that point, right. As we all

Andy Paul:

seen the reports from CSO insights and from bravado just

Andy Paul:

came out with a report. Majority of sales sellers are not hitting

Andy Paul:

their quotas. So whose responsibility is that? It's

Andy Paul:

just what you said it is the managers responsibility. And too

Andy Paul:

many one offs are pointing fingers at the sellers and

Andy Paul:

saying well, they're not doing the work and so on. Well, okay,

Andy Paul:

well, that's still your responsibility is and I think

Andy Paul:

the way that managers need to look at it is assume that you

Andy Paul:

are a manager of a manufacturing plant, and you're making a

Andy Paul:

product. So if 52% of the product coming off here assembly

Andy Paul:

line didn't work to specification, how long would

Andy Paul:

you hold your job? Not long, right? Yeah, that's really what

Andy Paul:

this is, is the sellers, I don't make turn sellers into, you

Andy Paul:

know, a number or something, but they are your product, you are

Andy Paul:

shaping those people. They're your responsibility. So if

Andy Paul:

you're allowing salespeople, either virtually or physically

Andy Paul:

to go out and have conversations with customers that are so

Andy Paul:

ineffective that such a few percentage of them a low

Andy Paul:

percentage of them actually attain quota, that's your

Andy Paul:

responsibility. And now, as we said earlier, we don't

Andy Paul:

necessarily enable sell sales managers to help their people

Andy Paul:

the way they need to in that regard. So it's yeah, we've got

Andy Paul:

multiple steps in this. But yeah, we need to start looking

Andy Paul:

at sales managers is really take it personally, if people that

Andy Paul:

were responsible for aren't hitting their numbers.

Wesleyne Greer:

And you know, a lot of times when we go in, and

Wesleyne Greer:

we're working with companies within our consulting practice,

Wesleyne Greer:

you know, I'll say, Hey, this is where your salespeople are, this

Wesleyne Greer:

is what they need. And a lot of times leadership be like, oh,

Wesleyne Greer:

let's just get rid of them. They're all bad. Let's just

Wesleyne Greer:

replace them. And not doing this and not doing that. And so I

Wesleyne Greer:

just said, Look, each and every person in the eye, whether I'm

Wesleyne Greer:

on Zoom, or in person, and I say, have you given each and

Wesleyne Greer:

every person on this screen 100% of what they need to be

Wesleyne Greer:

successful. And 100% of the time, they say no, so I'm like,

Wesleyne Greer:

you have to give them something before you say go away. If this

Wesleyne Greer:

is your fault, right? And we can talk about this all day, Andy,

Wesleyne Greer:

because this is actually like, this is my heart. I talk about

Wesleyne Greer:

this all the time, sales management enablement, right,

Wesleyne Greer:

and why they're the nucleus of the organization

Andy Paul:

Well, right. But we can't set people up for failure.

Andy Paul:

And this is my concern is so ripe for the pandemic, I spoke

Andy Paul:

to a group of CEOs, they were CEOs of portfolio company of

Andy Paul:

this private equity firm. And as presenting to them, and I went,

Andy Paul:

I said, Well, let me ask you all the questions. Yeah. Whose this

Andy Paul:was toward the end of:Andy Paul:

is going to raise quotas this year? Well, they all raise their

Andy Paul:

hand. Okay. Got it. I said, so, you know, how much we serve,

Andy Paul:

established over baseline was like 12 13%, on average. I said,

Andy Paul:

Great. Okay. So raise your hand, if you've invested sufficiently

Andy Paul:

this year, and your sellers that, you know, their

Andy Paul:

productivity has improved by 13%. Hmm. That sounds

Wesleyne Greer:

like,

Andy Paul:

huh, wow. That's like, we don't tie the ends

Andy Paul:

together. It's like, sure you want to grow, but you have to

Andy Paul:

provide people something to be able to enable them to grow,

Andy Paul:

right? It's how are you adding to their skills? How you're

Andy Paul:

adding to their experience? How are you improving the level of

Andy Paul:

coaching and management they get that can help them achieve at

Andy Paul:

higher levels? Whatever that dimension is? What are you

Andy Paul:

doing, and too often that we just raise the quotas,

Andy Paul:

regardless of those things. And then we wonder why people get

Andy Paul:

frustrated, why they quit, why they turn over quickly. You

Andy Paul:

know, it's a situation that that management leadership is

Andy Paul:

oftentimes creating. So you have to look at the whole the whole

Andy Paul:

picture.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, we've had an amazing conversation. And I

Wesleyne Greer:

do want to wrap up and ask you something, what's the thing that

Wesleyne Greer:

you're most excited about accomplishing personally, or

Wesleyne Greer:

professionally, you talked about your kids and books and this

Wesleyne Greer:

amazing consulting practice. So I don't know how you're gonna

Wesleyne Greer:

get just one. But give me the one.

Andy Paul:

You know, at this point in time, it's fun. I mean,

Andy Paul:

the podcast and the books, I think, but also, you know, my

Andy Paul:

partner in creating the podcast, and in my business has been my

Andy Paul:

son. So, again, as a parent, having the opportunity to watch

Andy Paul:

your kids grow and mature and to have the opportunity to interact

Andy Paul:

with them frequently. Daily as because we're working together.

Andy Paul:

It was Yeah, unexpected. Pleasure and bonus for

Andy Paul:

everything I've done. And yeah, I just remember we're down a

Andy Paul:

similar age, and I sunsets mid 30s. But yeah, I want to talk to

Andy Paul:

my parents once a week, right. And they really have no idea

Andy Paul:

what I was up to in my life in terms of understanding my

Andy Paul:

profession and what I was doing, because at odds what they had

Andy Paul:

done, yeah, good chance to share this with, uh, not my daughter

Andy Paul:

works for me as well. So that's a lot of fun.

Wesleyne Greer:

That is amazing. I would say that is an amazing

Wesleyne Greer:

thing to be able to hang your hat on, right? Both of your

Wesleyne Greer:

kids, they've done their thing and now they've come back and

Wesleyne Greer:

they're working in the business with you. That's awesome. Yeah.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so far,

Andy Paul:

they don't hate me for

Wesleyne Greer:

Awesome, awesome. Awesome. So Andy, what

Wesleyne Greer:

is the one best way that people can get in contact with you if

Wesleyne Greer:

they want to chat with you or engage with you or

Andy Paul:

LinkedIn? So you can follow me on LinkedIn connect

Andy Paul:

with me please connect with me. That'd be great. message me on

Andy Paul:

LinkedIn as well. That's funny. Like many people, it's two

Andy Paul:

inboxes both my my email and LinkedIn but LinkedIn is

Andy Paul:

probably The easiest, most direct way at this point.

Wesleyne Greer:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been

Wesleyne Greer:

an amazing conversation. Thank you for having me. And I would

Wesleyne Greer:

encourage anyone, please pick up a copy of Andy's book. I've read

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it. It is an amazing book. And I know that your leadership if

Wesleyne Greer:

you're an individual contributor, wherever you fall

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within the sales organization, it's going to help you to become

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a better seller. So thanks again for your time and talent and

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expertise. Andy? Well, thank you for having me. It's been a lot

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of fun. And that was another episode of the science of

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selling stem and remember and all that you do transform your

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sales until next time. Thank you for joining us today on the

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snack sized sales podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,

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subscribe and leave us a review. Learn how to continue increasing

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your bottom line by getting simplified sales strategies

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delivered to your inbox weekly by going to www dot snack sized

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sales.com. Trust me, your bank account will grow and love you

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