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Why You Need Solution-Centric Sales with Janice B Gordon

Transcript
Wesleyne Greer:

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

Wesleyne Greer:

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

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well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

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how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

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single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

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science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

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technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

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difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

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that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

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develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

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single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

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listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

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inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

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you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to the

Wesleyne Greer:

transform your sales podcast today. I am so so excited to be

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speaking with Janice B. Gordon. How are you, Janice?

Janice Gordon:

Oh, it's great to be here.

Wesleyne Greer:

Thank you so much. He is all the way in the

Wesleyne Greer:

UK, which is why I love this world where we can just both pop

Wesleyne Greer:

on here and have this great conversation

Janice Gordon:

certainly is really very convenient, isn't

Janice Gordon:

it? It is it is.

Wesleyne Greer:

So let me tell you a little bit about Janice

Wesleyne Greer:

Janice B. Gordon is the customer growth expert. She uses her 20

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plus years of business sales, customer experience and

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leadership to unleash hidden potential and accelerate revenue

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growth by investing in customer alignment and buyer engagement.

Wesleyne Greer:

She's the founder of scale your sales podcast and framework.

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She's listed as a top 50 global thought leader and influencer

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and customer experience. She's a consultant, international

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speaker, educator and facilitator and author of

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business evolution, creating growth in a rapidly changing

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world and co author appeals to deals how women are dominating

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in business to business sales. Wow. So 20 plus years, and you

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are the customer growth expert. So how did you get started? And

Wesleyne Greer:

how did you get to where you are today?

Janice Gordon:

I started selling when I was 15. I had designs

Janice Gordon:

that I made. And people would say, Oh, can you make me one.

Janice Gordon:

And that's how it all started. I never thought I would be in

Janice Gordon:

sales. But I always thought I'd be an entrepreneur in and in

Janice Gordon:

business. And that's the route that I took. And no one ever

Janice Gordon:

told me that actually, if you're in business, you're in sales in

Janice Gordon:

schools, it's never laid out that way really, and how

Janice Gordon:

important sales is to business that connection was never made.

Janice Gordon:

So I did my degree in fashion textiles and business and went

Janice Gordon:

down the business side of fashion and textile selling

Janice Gordon:

textile designs. And my father was in America. So I got on a

Janice Gordon:

plane, I took my samples over and I called people and sold a

Janice Gordon:

lot of the samples. I mean, it was a real asset having an

Janice Gordon:

English accent on the phone calling a design director. So I

Janice Gordon:

sold for many years, I set up a business after I finished my

Janice Gordon:

first degree and would go out to America selling to contract and

Janice Gordon:

fashion houses or contract furnishings that was and then

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linked up with an American company and sold their samples

Janice Gordon:

designs in England. So going to scientists and liberties and the

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like. And I remember sometimes I'd be on the phone to people

Janice Gordon:

selling the American samples in in the UK. And then when I

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turned up their face would drop because I wasn't expecting a

Janice Gordon:

black woman, but I capitalize on on that I did a lot of field

Janice Gordon:

sales. I then went to Botswana and worked out there for a

Janice Gordon:

number of years. When I returned, I started working in

Janice Gordon:

financial service sales. And it's actually only at that point

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that I got my sales training my formal sales training, and at

Janice Gordon:

that time, we could cold call in the UK so it'd be a Tuesday I'd

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have to be in by eight o'clock and it'd be stand up cold

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calling and Tuesday evening between seven and eight stand up

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cold calling I hate

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I really love the relationship building and I'm helping my

Janice Gordon:

clients and companies to achieve their goals. But the cold

Janice Gordon:

calling bit I really didn't like at all there was no relationship

Janice Gordon:

and it was just seems so kind of forced really. So then I did my

Janice Gordon:

MBA Cranfield MBA, and I did that because I was still

Janice Gordon:

interested in business and it was great experience and I was

Janice Gordon:

running my own own company and growing it and meeting wonderful

Janice Gordon:

people. But I felt that I wanted more than that. And the MBA was

Janice Gordon:

to enable me to kind of bridge back across to entrepreneurship,

Janice Gordon:

bigger business. So I did my Cranfield MBA, and that was one

Janice Gordon:

of those experiences I had an assistants that were sitting in

Janice Gordon:

my desk in the The Office and I didn't tell the company that

Janice Gordon:

sells company I was doing an MBA because I knew that my

Janice Gordon:

commission, you know, if you've, you're in sales at that time,

Janice Gordon:

you don't tell them you're leaving, because then it's

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really difficult to get your last paycheck. So I did the, and

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though they think you're not serious about what you're doing,

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even if it's your own business, you're actually sitting in a

Janice Gordon:

serviced office knew you buy in some of their services,

Janice Gordon:

compliance, and so forth. So I left the sales industry

Janice Gordon:

financial services on the slide, really to make sure I got my

Janice Gordon:

last pay slip. And I moved into operations management with the

Janice Gordon:

help of my MBA. And that was a fantastic experience, because I

Janice Gordon:

learned a lot more about health and safety and recruiting people

Janice Gordon:

and training them up. And I worked my way out of a job.

Janice Gordon:

Because I'm very much a start. I like to create systems. That's

Janice Gordon:

what I loved about business, creating systems making sure

Janice Gordon:

that they work and sales process is another business system. But

Janice Gordon:

now it's very much more of an ecosystem, which I don't mind

Janice Gordon:

talking about. So that's how my kind of early started in sales.

Janice Gordon:

Thereafter, I work for a customer experience consultancy.

Janice Gordon:

And that changed my view of what sales is about previously, it

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was about pushing we're salespeople, we have all the

Janice Gordon:

information, we're pushing it on our customers, we're ringing

Janice Gordon:

them up, we're telling them what they should do, the industry has

Janice Gordon:

changed now where it's pulling, customers make all of the

Janice Gordon:

decisions, buyers have all of the information, and they're the

Janice Gordon:

ones doing the selecting. And so the experience has changed that

Janice Gordon:

you need to provide. So customer experience really taught me that

Janice Gordon:

customers are your best creators and innovators as buyers, they

Janice Gordon:

know what they want and what they're looking for. They have

Janice Gordon:

all of the cards. And so I started to change the way that I

Janice Gordon:

sold. And it became very much more consultative, but also very

Janice Gordon:

much about the experience, because I've learned all of this

Janice Gordon:

great information about how important experiences and that's

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very much true today, there are stats to say that experience

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Trumps price and product features and benefits now, and

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people are willing to pay more for great experiences, what if

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they're willing to pay more, and it trumps all those other

Janice Gordon:

traditional things, and it's something we need to be paying

Janice Gordon:

attention to. And that's what I do in scale your sales, it's all

Janice Gordon:

about reimagining the revenue growth through customer

Janice Gordon:

experience and sales, the sales will happen if you have the

Janice Gordon:

right product for the right customer and you create the

Janice Gordon:

right experience.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow. So you have such a diverse background,

Wesleyne Greer:

because you actually started your career as an independent

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salesperson, whereas so many people typically they start for

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companies and like yeah, I don't like it. And then you went back

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and worked for a company and got those solid sales skills and you

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realize the things that you really enjoyed and the things

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that you didn't enjoy. So what were some of the lessons that

Wesleyne Greer:

you still use and implement today that you learned way back

Wesleyne Greer:

when when you first started out in sales,

Janice Gordon:

what I loved about sales with relationships,

Janice Gordon:

I love talking, and I have very good listening skills. So that's

Janice Gordon:

what I absolutely adored about my job. And when in compliance,

Janice Gordon:

they tried to change that. So they you know, you would have a

Janice Gordon:

recommendation letter go to compliance and you'll come back,

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you'd be 10 times before it got passed through compliance. By

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the end, you got this recommendation letter that had

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nothing to do with the customer you're selling it to, because

Janice Gordon:

they were thinking about protecting the company. And if

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you're in that kind of environment, if that's the

Janice Gordon:

primary thing that they're looking for, we don't want any

Janice Gordon:

come back. So that means you have no faith in what you're

Janice Gordon:

doing. And you're forcing all these people that do have faith

Janice Gordon:

that because they have the relationship with a customer,

Janice Gordon:

you're forcing them down the line. That's why I decided to

Janice Gordon:

come out of financial services sales, it didn't feel good, it

Janice Gordon:

didn't feel right. It wasn't about the relationship and doing

Janice Gordon:

good for the customer. When I went into customer experience, I

Janice Gordon:

thought oh my gosh, I found home it's all about the customer.

Janice Gordon:

This is what didn't seem right to me in sales. And absolutely,

Janice Gordon:

when I've got it in customer experience, I thought I'm still

Janice Gordon:

an entrepreneur, I know that sales is the core to all

Janice Gordon:

business and business growth. I have all my MBA experience. I

Janice Gordon:

know this is right, and it was just that little birth kind of

Janice Gordon:

third leg of the stool that I needed to put it all together to

Janice Gordon:

fall in love again with sales.

Wesleyne Greer:

So really not saying add this, I don't like

Wesleyne Greer:

this company. I don't like this industry. I'm gonna try

Wesleyne Greer:

something different. You really were able to tap into your

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passion and understand that customer experience is the way

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to go. And you mentioned you know, hey, you're having to send

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this to compliance and then it goes to a customer and it's so

Wesleyne Greer:

product centric. So what are some of the challenges that you

Wesleyne Greer:

see today with come buddies that are so focused on being product

Wesleyne Greer:

centric.

Janice Gordon:

Well, and they wonder why they're not selling?

Janice Gordon:

You know, I do you have a we, you know, in the kind of tech

Janice Gordon:

environment, you have these great, really sharp tech people,

Janice Gordon:

but they don't have the language of the customer, which is the

Janice Gordon:

first thing that I can't talk to them about interviewing your

Janice Gordon:

customers recording their language, what is the way they

Janice Gordon:

describe their pains, their problems? What is the way they

Janice Gordon:

describe what their ideal solution, this is the language

Janice Gordon:

you need to be using? Not the tech language, not the language

Janice Gordon:

you created this great service or product with because no one

Janice Gordon:

gets that absolutely not your customer. So that's the first

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thing that's changed. But also the you know, we've been through

Janice Gordon:

a pandemic, we've all working virtually now and starting to go

Janice Gordon:

back to face to face. And it's really understanding that our

Janice Gordon:

buyers and our customers have always been in the VA. Well, you

Janice Gordon:

know, they've been ahead of us in the virtual world in the way

Janice Gordon:

that they're using their tools and their apps. And its sales.

Janice Gordon:

It's catching up to that. And I think one thing that's happening

Janice Gordon:

in sales is we're going down the techie route, going down the

Janice Gordon:

data, and we're forgetting about sales is still about humans,

Janice Gordon:

even if you're b2b. It's still about humans making the decision

Janice Gordon:

until the robots are making decisions. So don't throw out

Janice Gordon:

what we know about what's all great about our human nature and

Janice Gordon:

human human behaviors. Don't throw that out. Yes, we need to

Janice Gordon:

sharpen our saw. And yes, data is absolutely important to help

Janice Gordon:

with our decision making. But at the end of the day, people are

Janice Gordon:

the ones that are still making those decisions.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's so good. Early in my career when I was

Wesleyne Greer:

still a salesperson, I'm a recovering chemist, I like to

Wesleyne Greer:

tell people that but I always sold to engineers. And what I

Wesleyne Greer:

learned is I couldn't use language that chemists

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understood, I can start talking about equations and this and

Wesleyne Greer:

this and that I need to speak engineer. And so a lot of times

Wesleyne Greer:

I will tell people, I speak engineer, because that's what my

Wesleyne Greer:

clients be. And if you're selling to doctors, or lawyers,

Wesleyne Greer:

or CEOs, or maybe you're selling to customer service people, you

Wesleyne Greer:

have to really understand the words they use, right? When you

Wesleyne Greer:

can use their actual words, their phrases, they're like,

Wesleyne Greer:

this person gets me, right.

Janice Gordon:

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. That's the

Janice Gordon:

starting point. That is the bare minimum.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so when you say okay, first, we need to

Wesleyne Greer:

literally record our customer conversations, ask them these

Wesleyne Greer:

difficult questions, understand, like, why do you buy from me why

Wesleyne Greer:

you buy from my competitor? Then once you have all of that

Wesleyne Greer:

information? How do you translate that and help people

Wesleyne Greer:

become more problem centric, more buyer centric, and less

Wesleyne Greer:

product centric,

Janice Gordon:

people are solution centric, they're always

Janice Gordon:

about what's in it. For me, they're never about product

Janice Gordon:

centric, ever, ever, ever about product centric, because they

Janice Gordon:

don't really care if it's a drill, they want the hole, they

Janice Gordon:

want the solution. So that's their key focus. So using their

Janice Gordon:

language and using how they describe the solution. They

Janice Gordon:

never describe the product. They describe how the problem will

Janice Gordon:

help them, they use emotional words, and they describe the

Janice Gordon:

exacting solution that they want. Customers are very good at

Janice Gordon:

that. The problem is that in the sales industry, we've been so

Janice Gordon:

arrogant to think that what we've got is the best, and

Janice Gordon:

everyone's going to need it. And that's not the case. So once you

Janice Gordon:

have the language of the customer, you have to go in and

Janice Gordon:

interpret what do what I have in terms of products or service.

Janice Gordon:

How is that going to help the customer to move forward not

Janice Gordon:

necessarily to get a sale at the end of the day, it's moving step

Janice Gordon:

by step, what information do they need right now to move them

Janice Gordon:

on to the next step, what we tend to do so we give them the

Janice Gordon:

whole pie. And it's just information overload because we

Janice Gordon:

think we're starting to have a conversation with a seller

Janice Gordon:

they've given us some of the information of what they're

Janice Gordon:

looking for. I need to close that sale. Close it down right

Janice Gordon:

now. Because we've shown some interest, right I'm so now we're

Janice Gordon:

going full steam ahead. We tell our managers that this is a done

Janice Gordon:

deal. We're committed ourselves and now the pressure is on. And

Janice Gordon:

again, we're thinking about ourselves, we've completely come

Janice Gordon:

out and we've got this great language that the customer has

Janice Gordon:

given us and great value proposition, key words and

Janice Gordon:

things that's interested them. And as soon as they give us a

Janice Gordon:

little bit of information, then we go back into ourselves again,

Janice Gordon:

and we're thinking about it from our point of view and we've lost

Janice Gordon:

the sale. So always, always have the customer with a seat at the

Janice Gordon:

table always have their information, their language at

Janice Gordon:

the forefront, not only of your mind if you have to put it on

Janice Gordon:

your walls when you're working on a customer deal, then that's

Janice Gordon:

the only thing that you should be looking at Put yourself in

Janice Gordon:

their shoes, whatever tools, you need to do that visualization,

Janice Gordon:

have your screens as if you're in their space in their factory,

Janice Gordon:

you've got to completely absorb yourself with their world. And

Janice Gordon:

you have to keep using that going back and referencing that

Janice Gordon:

not only the when you start pitching and talking to them and

Janice Gordon:

moving them along their journey, but whenever you're creating

Janice Gordon:

anything for them, don't put it in a bottom drawer, it always

Janice Gordon:

has to be at the forefront. And even six months later, this

Janice Gordon:

summer is something that I teach salespeople, my clients that I

Janice Gordon:

work with, if six months later, you're able to reference the

Janice Gordon:

conversation that that buyer, that customer said to you using

Janice Gordon:

their language, they always recognize it. They always,

Janice Gordon:

always recognize it. And what does that say to them, this

Janice Gordon:

person's on my side, this person listens to me, this person

Janice Gordon:

values what we value. And that helps you to go forward.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, that's so powerful. It's you said it's not

Wesleyne Greer:

product focus, it's more that they're their solution focus.

Wesleyne Greer:

It's like they hear they're like, Okay, I get that I can't

Wesleyne Greer:

talk about myself, I need to be focused on them. As soon as you

Wesleyne Greer:

hear one little thing, you jump, and you're ready to close,

Wesleyne Greer:

right? But you're not following at the speed of the buyer,

Wesleyne Greer:

right. And so a lot of times, we're ready to close, we're

Wesleyne Greer:

ready to move, but the buyer is like, I'm still in my evaluation

Wesleyne Greer:

phase. So how do we bridge the gap between what the salesperson

Wesleyne Greer:

wants to do and what that actual buyer wants to do?

Janice Gordon:

But well, it doesn't really matter what the

Janice Gordon:

salesperson wants to do. That's irrelevant. That's the point.

Janice Gordon:

You know, it is the buyers, well, the buyers are the ones

Janice Gordon:

that are making the decisions, they're dictating the pace. And

Janice Gordon:

so it's really difficult for salespeople to grasp that

Janice Gordon:

concept. And until they do, they'll always be on the

Janice Gordon:

backfoot. So we need to just relinquish our control over the

Janice Gordon:

situation, we don't have any control, we're always going to

Janice Gordon:

be followers. And that's the way of the world now. But the better

Janice Gordon:

you are able to follow really closely, eventually, you'll be

Janice Gordon:

anticipating. And Steve Jobs said this years and years ago

Janice Gordon:

about this is the goal of Apple to anticipate needs. And the way

Janice Gordon:

that that happens is that you relinquish control first

Janice Gordon:

understand the world we're in right now. And this is it.

Janice Gordon:have the world you had in the:Janice Gordon:

the naughties that has gone, the internet, we've already sold on

Janice Gordon:

to that informations already out there. There's no point shutting

Janice Gordon:

the gate because it's already bolted. This is the world that

Janice Gordon:

we're in. So we are followers, but your job is to follow really

Janice Gordon:

close. As soon as they make a step, you make an a step,

Janice Gordon:

eventually, you're going to learn the dance, you're going to

Janice Gordon:

learn the buyers and the customers dance, because you've

Janice Gordon:

been following so close. They're the leaders, they're leading in

Janice Gordon:

the dance. And once you've got there, you're going to be able

Janice Gordon:

to anticipate the next step. And then once you've got there,

Janice Gordon:

you're going to be able to anticipate the next three steps

Janice Gordon:

and guide them through the next three steps. And then once

Janice Gordon:

you've got there, you're developing a relationship into a

Janice Gordon:

partnership, so that you're both entwined. But the fact is, you

Janice Gordon:

have to learn their language. It's like going to another

Janice Gordon:

country, as we have English people often do, and expect

Janice Gordon:

everyone to speak English, that doesn't go, you're in someone

Janice Gordon:

else's country. So you need to learn their language, if you

Janice Gordon:

want to sell to them. And you need to start speaking their

Janice Gordon:

language. And eventually, you'll know the language. So well,

Janice Gordon:

you'll be talking humor, you'll be you'll know the nuances,

Janice Gordon:

you'll be leading in the joke, and they'll all get it. But it

Janice Gordon:

takes time for that to happen. And what you've got to do as a

Janice Gordon:

seller is invest in that time.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, that is so powerful. Because one thing that

Wesleyne Greer:

you said that's so interesting is when you go to another

Wesleyne Greer:

country, don't expect someone to speak your language, right? Like

Wesleyne Greer:

when I go to London, I don't expect for you guys to drive on

Wesleyne Greer:

the same side of the road that I do, I have to know that, hey,

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm in your world, I can't just barrel down the road and drive

Wesleyne Greer:

on the wrong side of the road. Right. And so really removing

Wesleyne Greer:

yourself. And one of the things that I really think is so

Wesleyne Greer:

important is if you're thinking about the next step, your next

Wesleyne Greer:

question what you should do next, you're not immersed in

Wesleyne Greer:

their world, right? If you're have any apprehensions about

Wesleyne Greer:

you, the seller or the company or the product, you're doing it

Wesleyne Greer:

wrong. Yeah, absolutely.

Janice Gordon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Wesleyne Greer:

So you've written a couple books. Tell us

Wesleyne Greer:

about the business evolution. What is that all about?

Janice Gordon:siness evolution published in:Janice Gordon:

it was came out of the experience I was actually I was

Janice Gordon:

I went into entrepreneurship and had a restaurant on bar. I

Janice Gordon:

employ 20 staff. What I learned was there was many others that

Janice Gordon:

went out of business. This was just after the economic crash.

Janice Gordon:

And we were still growing. And the reason for that was applying

Janice Gordon:

some of these strategies. When I came out of the business, I

Janice Gordon:

realized what it was that created that kind of essential

Janice Gordon:

value. We were using social media before a lot of these

Janice Gordon:

companies, businesses had been in business 10 years, they were

Janice Gordon:

doing things that the way that they used to do, they've always

Janice Gordon:

done them. We were new incumbents. So we had adopted

Janice Gordon:

the new ways of engaging our customers. Plus, I had come out

Janice Gordon:

of customer experience. So I realized that customers were

Janice Gordon:

primary, I stayed close. Remember, I was talking about

Janice Gordon:

staying really close to the customers. So I created great

Janice Gordon:

relationships with a unique group of customers that had

Janice Gordon:

other groups that they were the key influences in. So all I had

Janice Gordon:

to do was tell my key group of people what was going on, and

Janice Gordon:

they would invite other people from their groups, I understood,

Janice Gordon:

that's the way it worked. And it was very personable, I knew them

Janice Gordon:

by you know, first name, but I stayed in regular contact with

Janice Gordon:

them. So all of these things that I learned so and I came up

Janice Gordon:

with the four essential piece, which was personality, you've

Janice Gordon:

got to put your personality into your business, even if you're an

Janice Gordon:

employee, you've got to leave with your own unique personality

Janice Gordon:

purpose, you've got to understand why you're doing it.

Janice Gordon:

And I also talk about what you can do that no one else can do

Janice Gordon:

in the way you do it really important. And then Pleasure is

Janice Gordon:

all about the customer experience. What's your

Janice Gordon:

pleasure, sir? How can I make life better for you? So it's all

Janice Gordon:

about the focused on your customers. Now, if you're an

Janice Gordon:

employee, it's the focus on your employees that create the

Janice Gordon:

customer experience for your customers. So it's about giving

Janice Gordon:

pleasure, how do I do that, and then processes the fourth

Janice Gordon:

essential P I discovered in business because I created a

Janice Gordon:

business association and supported lots of other

Janice Gordon:

businesses to help them to grow through the difficulties having

Janice Gordon:

the MBA background. So process is that we often create

Janice Gordon:

processes based on where we've been before. So Will people or

Janice Gordon:

will have worked for large companies, they understand the

Janice Gordon:

process, they adopt that process for a small business, it doesn't

Janice Gordon:

work, but also understanding processes that we design, or

Janice Gordon:

what we understand. And when a customer comes to your website

Janice Gordon:

or in through your doors, it makes sense to you from your

Janice Gordon:

position. From your perspective, it's completely nonsense to the

Janice Gordon:

customer. From their perspective, they don't know

Janice Gordon:

where to go, you haven't given them clear directions. So your

Janice Gordon:

processes are blocking your customers from doing business

Janice Gordon:

with you. So it's really about understanding how you can create

Janice Gordon:

processes to give customer excellence, to give great

Janice Gordon:

experiences, to make it really easy and frictionless and easy

Janice Gordon:

for your customers.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow. And that was almost a whole 10 years ago.

Wesleyne Greer:

And it sounds like a lot of the principles that you use as a

Wesleyne Greer:

business owner of you know, this bar and restaurant, you're still

Wesleyne Greer:

able to apply to your clients today. And so when you think

Wesleyne Greer:

about your very vast and diverse career, the time you were in the

Wesleyne Greer:

textiles, industry, financial services, owning your own

Wesleyne Greer:

business, and now as a speaker and a consultant, give me an

Wesleyne Greer:

experience that you feel changed the trajectory of your career,

Janice Gordon:

one experience.

Wesleyne Greer:

I know it's hard.

Janice Gordon:

What changed my trajectory? Was the working for

Janice Gordon:

the customer experience because it was this the missing leg.

Janice Gordon:

That's the thing that really changed it. But every time I

Janice Gordon:

kind of revisit this every year, you know, you do your business

Janice Gordon:

plan, you think, Am I doing the right thing? Am I in the right?

Janice Gordon:

It just almost I'm ahead of my time, as you say with the book

Janice Gordon:

that's still relevant now. But also the fact that if you want

Janice Gordon:

to reimagine your sales revenue, you have to focus on customer

Janice Gordon:

experience. So I've been with this for last 17 years talking

Janice Gordon:

about the relationship between customer experience and sales

Janice Gordon:

and talking about, you know, customer centricity. You've got

Janice Gordon:

to put your customers first you've got to understand their

Janice Gordon:

language, all of these things is what people are beginning to

Janice Gordon:

work with. There's lots more stats out there. That's proven

Janice Gordon:

what I I've been talking about for a long time. So I think it's

Janice Gordon:

really those things really.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, so you're a complete early adopter, because

Wesleyne Greer:

17 years ago, you were thinking about this customer experience

Wesleyne Greer:

that everybody's jumping on the bandwagon with today, right?

Wesleyne Greer:

They're all like yes, yes, yes, customer focus, do this do that.

Wesleyne Greer:

But you were a very early adopter of this. You've also

Wesleyne Greer:

recently been featured or written co authored another book

Wesleyne Greer:

tell us about that

Janice Gordon:

heals two deals, how women are dominating b2b

Janice Gordon:

sales. And this was from Heidi Solomon auric. Has girls who

Janice Gordon:

sell and girls who sell is to encourage school you EVA'S into

Janice Gordon:

sales, and really help them to think about sales as a serious

Janice Gordon:

career option. And so she's thinking, how can I get the word

Janice Gordon:

out and decided that which she would pull together women sales

Janice Gordon:

professionals that have different stories to tell, it's

Janice Gordon:

an excellent book, and really inspiring it is for women that

Janice Gordon:

are thinking about going into sales. But I also think it's for

Janice Gordon:

women that already in sales, it's very inspiring stories, and

Janice Gordon:

helps you to see that you're not alone. Whatever experience you

Janice Gordon:

have had, it is in the books, someone's had it before there is

Janice Gordon:

a community of women. The thing is, I find out that scale

Janice Gordon:

yourselves podcast, I interview 50% Women 20% ethnic minorities,

Janice Gordon:

because it's important that their voices heard, I find it

Janice Gordon:

difficult to find the equal amount of men and women and I

Janice Gordon:

know you're shaking your head here, women are not as visible.

Janice Gordon:

Well, one reason is there aren't as many women in sales, because

Janice Gordon:

we've been actively discouraged. And there's lots of barriers to

Janice Gordon:

women getting into sales. So it's great what Heidi is doing a

Janice Gordon:

many other I'm part of women's sales pro, and they you know,

Janice Gordon:

Lori Richardson is doing incredible work, you'll Conrad

Janice Gordon:

kind of started all of this with the campaign of getting more

Janice Gordon:

women on sales stages. So there's a lot of forerunners to

Janice Gordon:

all of this. But it's we've really got to keep the pressure

Janice Gordon:

up the stats of 17% women sales leaders is absolutely poor and

Janice Gordon:

hasn't changed for the last 10 years, or stats or 30% Women in

Janice Gordon:

sales at that hasn't changed. The fact that you know, 50% of

Janice Gordon:

salespeople do not hit target means that there's something

Janice Gordon:

wrong in the system in the way that we're applying the system.

Janice Gordon:

It's broken, it doesn't work. And I could have a whole podcast

Janice Gordon:

on that one as well. But women in sales are the highest

Janice Gordon:

achievers and performers. So you know, you've got on one side

Janice Gordon:

where women are great sellers. And on the other side where

Janice Gordon:

there's all these barriers. So there's still a lot of work to

Janice Gordon:

be done.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, I can hear your passion about women in

Wesleyne Greer:

sales, ethnic minorities in sales. And it's so true. There's

Wesleyne Greer:

a community that I'm a part of, and they have forums throughout

Wesleyne Greer:

the year. And so in January, the kickoff that they had, I was

Wesleyne Greer:

like, you don't have any ethnic minority speaking. And they're

Wesleyne Greer:

like, oh, my gosh, was lean, we've been trying, but we can't

Wesleyne Greer:

find any, I'm like you're not trying hard enough. So I

Wesleyne Greer:

literally combed through my LinkedIn, and it was so hard for

Wesleyne Greer:

me to find CROs VPs of sales that were ethnic minorities,

Wesleyne Greer:

right, or even women. And so it is a very big challenge that

Wesleyne Greer:

we're working through. And I always say that the problem is

Wesleyne Greer:

we don't have enough entry level women in sales. And then when we

Wesleyne Greer:

get them in sales, we're not supporting them enough so that

Wesleyne Greer:

they want to stay and make this a career and move up their

Wesleyne Greer:

ladder. So there's so many multifaceted challenges that we

Wesleyne Greer:

have there.

Janice Gordon:

Absolutely, absolutely. We often have

Janice Gordon:

companies that will recruit more women, but nothing changes in

Janice Gordon:

the culture. The Yes. How's that

Wesleyne Greer:

gonna work? Yes. When they just they just check

Wesleyne Greer:

the box on the diversity, right? They say okay, yeah, we've hired

Wesleyne Greer:

more women with hire more ethnic minorities, and Okay, so we've

Wesleyne Greer:

done what we needed to do, but then they leave in nine months.

Wesleyne Greer:

No, you haven't done what you need to do you have a revolving

Wesleyne Greer:

door? Yeah, absolutely. So when you think about your very

Wesleyne Greer:

successful and amazing career, I'm gonna pin you down. For one

Wesleyne Greer:

thing again, what is one thing you're most proud of

Wesleyne Greer:

accomplishing personally or professionally?

Janice Gordon:

Gosh. I'm not normally what so personally and

Janice Gordon:

professionally, I think I can probably have to come on.

Janice Gordon:

Personally, I'm proud that I have lived in different parts of

Janice Gordon:

the world and traveled to different parts of the world,

Janice Gordon:

from a young age. That's created a very different mindsets that

Janice Gordon:

I'm comfortable of being the only in a room, I see that as an

Janice Gordon:

opportunity. I'm working the room when I go in the room, but

Janice Gordon:

it's taken a lot to get to that stage. But I got to that stage

Janice Gordon:

when I was I was young, because we were the only black family in

Janice Gordon:

this village. It was hostile, I can tell you in England, the

Janice Gordon:

only black family in this village for 15 years, you know,

Janice Gordon:

going through the school system, they didn't pay us any favors.

Janice Gordon:

So you know I think when you've had a trial by fire to come out

Janice Gordon:

of that then anything else is really easy. This is no big

Janice Gordon:

deal. But having travelled around the world I mean, you

Janice Gordon:

could have a mindset of these difficulties problems everyone's

Janice Gordon:

against you but actually having travelled around the world I

Janice Gordon:

think that my mindset is the absolute opposite in that

Janice Gordon:

everyone is genuinely good, not evil and unless proven

Janice Gordon:

otherwise. Really. I'm going to treat everyone with respect and

Janice Gordon:

and I love people I love traveling. I love exploring new

Janice Gordon:

things. So I think per Ultimately, I'm grateful for all

Janice Gordon:

of that traveling that I have done in my life that's helped to

Janice Gordon:

keep my mind open. And I think professionally, I nowhere near

Janice Gordon:

where I want to be, I'm still striving for a lot more. I mean,

Janice Gordon:

I accept, there are more challenges and barriers for me

Janice Gordon:

than, you know, others, for obvious reasons, but I'm still

Janice Gordon:

campaigning to for parity and openness of other people, I

Janice Gordon:

think you've got to give what you expect to receive from

Janice Gordon:

people. And I love what I'm doing, I love when I go in, and

Janice Gordon:

I'm the only in a room and I'm sitting around I'm training and

Janice Gordon:

talking to, you know, which is where if we're talking about

Janice Gordon:

sales are going to be mainly white men. And you know, one or

Janice Gordon:

two might be hostile to me also, but by the end of the session,

Janice Gordon:

you know, we're best friends, you know, and because if I can

Janice Gordon:

transfer some knowledge, some experience, and often it's down

Janice Gordon:

to certain words without, and that enables another salesperson

Janice Gordon:

to do really well enables another person to get on board

Janice Gordon:

with the language of their customers to really succeed in

Janice Gordon:

their work means they succeed in their life for their families,

Janice Gordon:

if I can help somebody do that, if I can help a business grow by

Janice Gordon:

an additional 50%, by giving them knowledge of how to become

Janice Gordon:

customer centric, or how to get your customers have a seat at

Janice Gordon:

your table, how to use their information to create and

Janice Gordon:

innovate products and services that the customers are going to

Janice Gordon:

buy, not only now but into the future, how I can future proof

Janice Gordon:

organizing. If I can do that, then oh my gosh, my you know,

Janice Gordon:

I'm happy, you know, and so the end of the day, because that's

Janice Gordon:

real legacy that's really making a difference not only to

Janice Gordon:

individuals, but businesses, but to their customers as well,

Janice Gordon:

which is I love.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, that is awesome. And I love how your

Wesleyne Greer:

personal experiences have really translated the way that you work

Wesleyne Greer:

the way that you see the world and even has translated into you

Wesleyne Greer:

professionally, right? Like, you're like, hey, I kind of had

Wesleyne Greer:

to develop a thick skin when I was younger. And because of

Wesleyne Greer:

that, that's what allows me to go be the only to show up in

Wesleyne Greer:

these rooms and really, really help those people who are like,

Wesleyne Greer:

Who are you and they're your raving fans at the end. I love

Wesleyne Greer:

that when you walk in the room. And they're like, Who is this

Wesleyne Greer:

another sales trainer? I don't want to hear the same stuff,

Wesleyne Greer:

blah, blah, blah. And then at the end, it's like, man, you

Wesleyne Greer:

really transformed the way that I'm thinking you've really

Wesleyne Greer:

challenged me.

Janice Gordon:

Yeah. And you know, I don't classify myself as

Janice Gordon:

a sales training because I do talk about sales training

Janice Gordon:

doesn't want Oh, yeah.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's a whole nother thing. So I say it all

Wesleyne Greer:

the time. Sales Training doesn't work.

Janice Gordon:

It doesn't work. Absolutely. But you know, like

Janice Gordon:

really getting sellers to think more like their buyers.

Janice Gordon:

Absolutely. Yes.

Wesleyne Greer:

Awesome. Well, Janet, this has been an amazing,

Wesleyne Greer:

amazing conversation. What is the one best way people can get

Wesleyne Greer:

in touch with you?

Janice Gordon:

LinkedIn, Janice B. Gordon, don't forget my B.

Janice Gordon:

Janice B. Gordon. If you put that in Google LinkedIn, your

Janice Gordon:

arm on page 123 You're gonna find me

Wesleyne Greer:

awesome. Janice B. Gordon, she shows up and has

Wesleyne Greer:

valuable content that you should definitely consume on LinkedIn.

Wesleyne Greer:

So thank you again, Janice. This has been an amazing

Wesleyne Greer:

conversation. I feel like I am all deep into this world of

Wesleyne Greer:

customer experience and being very solution focused. Thank you

Wesleyne Greer:

so much for your time, your talent and your expertise today.

Janice Gordon:

It's been a pleasure. Wesleyne. Thank you so

Janice Gordon:

much for inviting me on your wonderful podcast and keep doing

Janice Gordon:

the great work.

Wesleyne Greer:

Thank you so much. And that was another

Wesleyne Greer:

episode of the transform your sales podcast and remember and

Wesleyne Greer:

all that you do, think about how science and sales work together

Wesleyne Greer:

to really transform your sales. Until next time. Thank you for

Wesleyne Greer:

joining us today on the snack sized sales podcast. If you

Wesleyne Greer:

enjoyed this episode, subscribe and leave us a review. Learn how

Wesleyne Greer:

to continue increasing your bottom line by getting

Wesleyne Greer:

simplified sales strategies delivered to your inbox weekly

Wesleyne Greer:

by going to www dot snack sized sales.com. Trust me, your bank

Get Your FREE GUIDE to A Build High-Performance Sales Team

Highlights

  • How she got into sales at a very young age and her incredible sales journey to date (02:04)
  • Combining her love for relationships and her listening skills to kill it in sales (07:39)
  • Sales No-Nos: The mistakes that product-centric companies make (09:49)
  • Why you need to start recording your customer conversations (12:28)
  • Consistently closing more sales by always living in the buyer’s world (16:26)
  • The immense power of customer-centricity (23:20)
  • Going through a positively impactful trial by fire that helped her thrive personally and professionally (28:23)

In this episode of the Transformed Sales Podcast, I interviewed Janice B. Gordon, the founder of Scale Your Sales Podcast and framework. Janice is a consultant, international speaker, educator, and facilitator. She’s a customer growth expert and top 50 global thought leader and influencer on customer experience. Janice is multi-award-winning and listed #25 of the Top 100 Global Business Influencer 2017, #4 Sales Guru 2020 and author of “Business Evolution: Creating Growth in a Rapidly Changing World” and co-author of “Heels to Deals: How Women are Dominating in Business to Business Sales”

She uses her 20+ years of business, sales, customer experience, and leadership to unleash hidden potential and accelerate revenue growth by investing in customer alignment and buyer engagement. “It’s not all about you. It’s all about your customers” says Janice. Join us as she shares her expertise on the nature of sales today, how to win and keep customers, what it takes to develop relationships, and so much more.

Quotes

“The sales will happen if you have the right product for the right customer, and you create the right experience” – Janice B. Gordon

“Once you have the language of the customer, you have to go in and interpret how what you have in terms of product or service is going to help the customer to move forward” – Janice B. Gordon

“The sales industry we’ve been so arrogant to think that what we’ve got is the best and everyone is going to need it, but that’s not the case” – Janice B. Gordon

“People are solution-centric. They’re never product-centric” – Janice B. Gordon

“Women in sales are the highest achievers and performers, but we’ve got one side where women are great sellers and another side where there are so many barriers, so there is still a lot of work to be done” – Janice B Gordon

Resources Mentioned:

Learn More About Janice in the Links Below:

Connect with Wesleyne Greer:

  • Wesleyne’s Website – https://transformedsales.com/
  • Wesleyne on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesleynegreer/
  • Wesleyne on Facebook – https://web.facebook.com/wesleynegreer
  • Wesleyne on Twitter – https://twitter.com/wesleynegreer

Email Her at WGreer@TransformedSales.com

Transcript
Wesleyne Greer:

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

Wesleyne Greer:

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

Wesleyne Greer:

well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

Wesleyne Greer:

how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

Wesleyne Greer:

single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

Wesleyne Greer:

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

Wesleyne Greer:

technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

Wesleyne Greer:

difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

Wesleyne Greer:

that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

Wesleyne Greer:

develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

Wesleyne Greer:

single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

Wesleyne Greer:

listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

Wesleyne Greer:

inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

Wesleyne Greer:

you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to the

Wesleyne Greer:

transform your sales podcast today. I am so so excited to be

Wesleyne Greer:

speaking with Janice B. Gordon. How are you, Janice?

Janice Gordon:

Oh, it's great to be here.

Wesleyne Greer:

Thank you so much. He is all the way in the

Wesleyne Greer:

UK, which is why I love this world where we can just both pop

Wesleyne Greer:

on here and have this great conversation

Janice Gordon:

certainly is really very convenient, isn't

Janice Gordon:

it? It is it is.

Wesleyne Greer:

So let me tell you a little bit about Janice

Wesleyne Greer:

Janice B. Gordon is the customer growth expert. She uses her 20

Wesleyne Greer:

plus years of business sales, customer experience and

Wesleyne Greer:

leadership to unleash hidden potential and accelerate revenue

Wesleyne Greer:

growth by investing in customer alignment and buyer engagement.

Wesleyne Greer:

She's the founder of scale your sales podcast and framework.

Wesleyne Greer:

She's listed as a top 50 global thought leader and influencer

Wesleyne Greer:

and customer experience. She's a consultant, international

Wesleyne Greer:

speaker, educator and facilitator and author of

Wesleyne Greer:

business evolution, creating growth in a rapidly changing

Wesleyne Greer:

world and co author appeals to deals how women are dominating

Wesleyne Greer:

in business to business sales. Wow. So 20 plus years, and you

Wesleyne Greer:

are the customer growth expert. So how did you get started? And

Wesleyne Greer:

how did you get to where you are today?

Janice Gordon:

I started selling when I was 15. I had designs

Janice Gordon:

that I made. And people would say, Oh, can you make me one.

Janice Gordon:

And that's how it all started. I never thought I would be in

Janice Gordon:

sales. But I always thought I'd be an entrepreneur in and in

Janice Gordon:

business. And that's the route that I took. And no one ever

Janice Gordon:

told me that actually, if you're in business, you're in sales in

Janice Gordon:

schools, it's never laid out that way really, and how

Janice Gordon:

important sales is to business that connection was never made.

Janice Gordon:

So I did my degree in fashion textiles and business and went

Janice Gordon:

down the business side of fashion and textile selling

Janice Gordon:

textile designs. And my father was in America. So I got on a

Janice Gordon:

plane, I took my samples over and I called people and sold a

Janice Gordon:

lot of the samples. I mean, it was a real asset having an

Janice Gordon:

English accent on the phone calling a design director. So I

Janice Gordon:

sold for many years, I set up a business after I finished my

Janice Gordon:

first degree and would go out to America selling to contract and

Janice Gordon:

fashion houses or contract furnishings that was and then

Janice Gordon:

linked up with an American company and sold their samples

Janice Gordon:

designs in England. So going to scientists and liberties and the

Janice Gordon:

like. And I remember sometimes I'd be on the phone to people

Janice Gordon:

selling the American samples in in the UK. And then when I

Janice Gordon:

turned up their face would drop because I wasn't expecting a

Janice Gordon:

black woman, but I capitalize on on that I did a lot of field

Janice Gordon:

sales. I then went to Botswana and worked out there for a

Janice Gordon:

number of years. When I returned, I started working in

Janice Gordon:

financial service sales. And it's actually only at that point

Janice Gordon:

that I got my sales training my formal sales training, and at

Janice Gordon:

that time, we could cold call in the UK so it'd be a Tuesday I'd

Janice Gordon:

have to be in by eight o'clock and it'd be stand up cold

Janice Gordon:

calling and Tuesday evening between seven and eight stand up

Janice Gordon:

cold calling I hate

Janice Gordon:

I really love the relationship building and I'm helping my

Janice Gordon:

clients and companies to achieve their goals. But the cold

Janice Gordon:

calling bit I really didn't like at all there was no relationship

Janice Gordon:

and it was just seems so kind of forced really. So then I did my

Janice Gordon:

MBA Cranfield MBA, and I did that because I was still

Janice Gordon:

interested in business and it was great experience and I was

Janice Gordon:

running my own own company and growing it and meeting wonderful

Janice Gordon:

people. But I felt that I wanted more than that. And the MBA was

Janice Gordon:

to enable me to kind of bridge back across to entrepreneurship,

Janice Gordon:

bigger business. So I did my Cranfield MBA, and that was one

Janice Gordon:

of those experiences I had an assistants that were sitting in

Janice Gordon:

my desk in the The Office and I didn't tell the company that

Janice Gordon:

sells company I was doing an MBA because I knew that my

Janice Gordon:

commission, you know, if you've, you're in sales at that time,

Janice Gordon:

you don't tell them you're leaving, because then it's

Janice Gordon:

really difficult to get your last paycheck. So I did the, and

Janice Gordon:

though they think you're not serious about what you're doing,

Janice Gordon:

even if it's your own business, you're actually sitting in a

Janice Gordon:

serviced office knew you buy in some of their services,

Janice Gordon:

compliance, and so forth. So I left the sales industry

Janice Gordon:

financial services on the slide, really to make sure I got my

Janice Gordon:

last pay slip. And I moved into operations management with the

Janice Gordon:

help of my MBA. And that was a fantastic experience, because I

Janice Gordon:

learned a lot more about health and safety and recruiting people

Janice Gordon:

and training them up. And I worked my way out of a job.

Janice Gordon:

Because I'm very much a start. I like to create systems. That's

Janice Gordon:

what I loved about business, creating systems making sure

Janice Gordon:

that they work and sales process is another business system. But

Janice Gordon:

now it's very much more of an ecosystem, which I don't mind

Janice Gordon:

talking about. So that's how my kind of early started in sales.

Janice Gordon:

Thereafter, I work for a customer experience consultancy.

Janice Gordon:

And that changed my view of what sales is about previously, it

Janice Gordon:

was about pushing we're salespeople, we have all the

Janice Gordon:

information, we're pushing it on our customers, we're ringing

Janice Gordon:

them up, we're telling them what they should do, the industry has

Janice Gordon:

changed now where it's pulling, customers make all of the

Janice Gordon:

decisions, buyers have all of the information, and they're the

Janice Gordon:

ones doing the selecting. And so the experience has changed that

Janice Gordon:

you need to provide. So customer experience really taught me that

Janice Gordon:

customers are your best creators and innovators as buyers, they

Janice Gordon:

know what they want and what they're looking for. They have

Janice Gordon:

all of the cards. And so I started to change the way that I

Janice Gordon:

sold. And it became very much more consultative, but also very

Janice Gordon:

much about the experience, because I've learned all of this

Janice Gordon:

great information about how important experiences and that's

Janice Gordon:

very much true today, there are stats to say that experience

Janice Gordon:

Trumps price and product features and benefits now, and

Janice Gordon:

people are willing to pay more for great experiences, what if

Janice Gordon:

they're willing to pay more, and it trumps all those other

Janice Gordon:

traditional things, and it's something we need to be paying

Janice Gordon:

attention to. And that's what I do in scale your sales, it's all

Janice Gordon:

about reimagining the revenue growth through customer

Janice Gordon:

experience and sales, the sales will happen if you have the

Janice Gordon:

right product for the right customer and you create the

Janice Gordon:

right experience.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow. So you have such a diverse background,

Wesleyne Greer:

because you actually started your career as an independent

Wesleyne Greer:

salesperson, whereas so many people typically they start for

Wesleyne Greer:

companies and like yeah, I don't like it. And then you went back

Wesleyne Greer:

and worked for a company and got those solid sales skills and you

Wesleyne Greer:

realize the things that you really enjoyed and the things

Wesleyne Greer:

that you didn't enjoy. So what were some of the lessons that

Wesleyne Greer:

you still use and implement today that you learned way back

Wesleyne Greer:

when when you first started out in sales,

Janice Gordon:

what I loved about sales with relationships,

Janice Gordon:

I love talking, and I have very good listening skills. So that's

Janice Gordon:

what I absolutely adored about my job. And when in compliance,

Janice Gordon:

they tried to change that. So they you know, you would have a

Janice Gordon:

recommendation letter go to compliance and you'll come back,

Janice Gordon:

you'd be 10 times before it got passed through compliance. By

Janice Gordon:

the end, you got this recommendation letter that had

Janice Gordon:

nothing to do with the customer you're selling it to, because

Janice Gordon:

they were thinking about protecting the company. And if

Janice Gordon:

you're in that kind of environment, if that's the

Janice Gordon:

primary thing that they're looking for, we don't want any

Janice Gordon:

come back. So that means you have no faith in what you're

Janice Gordon:

doing. And you're forcing all these people that do have faith

Janice Gordon:

that because they have the relationship with a customer,

Janice Gordon:

you're forcing them down the line. That's why I decided to

Janice Gordon:

come out of financial services sales, it didn't feel good, it

Janice Gordon:

didn't feel right. It wasn't about the relationship and doing

Janice Gordon:

good for the customer. When I went into customer experience, I

Janice Gordon:

thought oh my gosh, I found home it's all about the customer.

Janice Gordon:

This is what didn't seem right to me in sales. And absolutely,

Janice Gordon:

when I've got it in customer experience, I thought I'm still

Janice Gordon:

an entrepreneur, I know that sales is the core to all

Janice Gordon:

business and business growth. I have all my MBA experience. I

Janice Gordon:

know this is right, and it was just that little birth kind of

Janice Gordon:

third leg of the stool that I needed to put it all together to

Janice Gordon:

fall in love again with sales.

Wesleyne Greer:

So really not saying add this, I don't like

Wesleyne Greer:

this company. I don't like this industry. I'm gonna try

Wesleyne Greer:

something different. You really were able to tap into your

Wesleyne Greer:

passion and understand that customer experience is the way

Wesleyne Greer:

to go. And you mentioned you know, hey, you're having to send

Wesleyne Greer:

this to compliance and then it goes to a customer and it's so

Wesleyne Greer:

product centric. So what are some of the challenges that you

Wesleyne Greer:

see today with come buddies that are so focused on being product

Wesleyne Greer:

centric.

Janice Gordon:

Well, and they wonder why they're not selling?

Janice Gordon:

You know, I do you have a we, you know, in the kind of tech

Janice Gordon:

environment, you have these great, really sharp tech people,

Janice Gordon:

but they don't have the language of the customer, which is the

Janice Gordon:

first thing that I can't talk to them about interviewing your

Janice Gordon:

customers recording their language, what is the way they

Janice Gordon:

describe their pains, their problems? What is the way they

Janice Gordon:

describe what their ideal solution, this is the language

Janice Gordon:

you need to be using? Not the tech language, not the language

Janice Gordon:

you created this great service or product with because no one

Janice Gordon:

gets that absolutely not your customer. So that's the first

Janice Gordon:

thing that's changed. But also the you know, we've been through

Janice Gordon:

a pandemic, we've all working virtually now and starting to go

Janice Gordon:

back to face to face. And it's really understanding that our

Janice Gordon:

buyers and our customers have always been in the VA. Well, you

Janice Gordon:

know, they've been ahead of us in the virtual world in the way

Janice Gordon:

that they're using their tools and their apps. And its sales.

Janice Gordon:

It's catching up to that. And I think one thing that's happening

Janice Gordon:

in sales is we're going down the techie route, going down the

Janice Gordon:

data, and we're forgetting about sales is still about humans,

Janice Gordon:

even if you're b2b. It's still about humans making the decision

Janice Gordon:

until the robots are making decisions. So don't throw out

Janice Gordon:

what we know about what's all great about our human nature and

Janice Gordon:

human human behaviors. Don't throw that out. Yes, we need to

Janice Gordon:

sharpen our saw. And yes, data is absolutely important to help

Janice Gordon:

with our decision making. But at the end of the day, people are

Janice Gordon:

the ones that are still making those decisions.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's so good. Early in my career when I was

Wesleyne Greer:

still a salesperson, I'm a recovering chemist, I like to

Wesleyne Greer:

tell people that but I always sold to engineers. And what I

Wesleyne Greer:

learned is I couldn't use language that chemists

Wesleyne Greer:

understood, I can start talking about equations and this and

Wesleyne Greer:

this and that I need to speak engineer. And so a lot of times

Wesleyne Greer:

I will tell people, I speak engineer, because that's what my

Wesleyne Greer:

clients be. And if you're selling to doctors, or lawyers,

Wesleyne Greer:

or CEOs, or maybe you're selling to customer service people, you

Wesleyne Greer:

have to really understand the words they use, right? When you

Wesleyne Greer:

can use their actual words, their phrases, they're like,

Wesleyne Greer:

this person gets me, right.

Janice Gordon:

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. That's the

Janice Gordon:

starting point. That is the bare minimum.

Wesleyne Greer:

And so when you say okay, first, we need to

Wesleyne Greer:

literally record our customer conversations, ask them these

Wesleyne Greer:

difficult questions, understand, like, why do you buy from me why

Wesleyne Greer:

you buy from my competitor? Then once you have all of that

Wesleyne Greer:

information? How do you translate that and help people

Wesleyne Greer:

become more problem centric, more buyer centric, and less

Wesleyne Greer:

product centric,

Janice Gordon:

people are solution centric, they're always

Janice Gordon:

about what's in it. For me, they're never about product

Janice Gordon:

centric, ever, ever, ever about product centric, because they

Janice Gordon:

don't really care if it's a drill, they want the hole, they

Janice Gordon:

want the solution. So that's their key focus. So using their

Janice Gordon:

language and using how they describe the solution. They

Janice Gordon:

never describe the product. They describe how the problem will

Janice Gordon:

help them, they use emotional words, and they describe the

Janice Gordon:

exacting solution that they want. Customers are very good at

Janice Gordon:

that. The problem is that in the sales industry, we've been so

Janice Gordon:

arrogant to think that what we've got is the best, and

Janice Gordon:

everyone's going to need it. And that's not the case. So once you

Janice Gordon:

have the language of the customer, you have to go in and

Janice Gordon:

interpret what do what I have in terms of products or service.

Janice Gordon:

How is that going to help the customer to move forward not

Janice Gordon:

necessarily to get a sale at the end of the day, it's moving step

Janice Gordon:

by step, what information do they need right now to move them

Janice Gordon:

on to the next step, what we tend to do so we give them the

Janice Gordon:

whole pie. And it's just information overload because we

Janice Gordon:

think we're starting to have a conversation with a seller

Janice Gordon:

they've given us some of the information of what they're

Janice Gordon:

looking for. I need to close that sale. Close it down right

Janice Gordon:

now. Because we've shown some interest, right I'm so now we're

Janice Gordon:

going full steam ahead. We tell our managers that this is a done

Janice Gordon:

deal. We're committed ourselves and now the pressure is on. And

Janice Gordon:

again, we're thinking about ourselves, we've completely come

Janice Gordon:

out and we've got this great language that the customer has

Janice Gordon:

given us and great value proposition, key words and

Janice Gordon:

things that's interested them. And as soon as they give us a

Janice Gordon:

little bit of information, then we go back into ourselves again,

Janice Gordon:

and we're thinking about it from our point of view and we've lost

Janice Gordon:

the sale. So always, always have the customer with a seat at the

Janice Gordon:

table always have their information, their language at

Janice Gordon:

the forefront, not only of your mind if you have to put it on

Janice Gordon:

your walls when you're working on a customer deal, then that's

Janice Gordon:

the only thing that you should be looking at Put yourself in

Janice Gordon:

their shoes, whatever tools, you need to do that visualization,

Janice Gordon:

have your screens as if you're in their space in their factory,

Janice Gordon:

you've got to completely absorb yourself with their world. And

Janice Gordon:

you have to keep using that going back and referencing that

Janice Gordon:

not only the when you start pitching and talking to them and

Janice Gordon:

moving them along their journey, but whenever you're creating

Janice Gordon:

anything for them, don't put it in a bottom drawer, it always

Janice Gordon:

has to be at the forefront. And even six months later, this

Janice Gordon:

summer is something that I teach salespeople, my clients that I

Janice Gordon:

work with, if six months later, you're able to reference the

Janice Gordon:

conversation that that buyer, that customer said to you using

Janice Gordon:

their language, they always recognize it. They always,

Janice Gordon:

always recognize it. And what does that say to them, this

Janice Gordon:

person's on my side, this person listens to me, this person

Janice Gordon:

values what we value. And that helps you to go forward.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, that's so powerful. It's you said it's not

Wesleyne Greer:

product focus, it's more that they're their solution focus.

Wesleyne Greer:

It's like they hear they're like, Okay, I get that I can't

Wesleyne Greer:

talk about myself, I need to be focused on them. As soon as you

Wesleyne Greer:

hear one little thing, you jump, and you're ready to close,

Wesleyne Greer:

right? But you're not following at the speed of the buyer,

Wesleyne Greer:

right. And so a lot of times, we're ready to close, we're

Wesleyne Greer:

ready to move, but the buyer is like, I'm still in my evaluation

Wesleyne Greer:

phase. So how do we bridge the gap between what the salesperson

Wesleyne Greer:

wants to do and what that actual buyer wants to do?

Janice Gordon:

But well, it doesn't really matter what the

Janice Gordon:

salesperson wants to do. That's irrelevant. That's the point.

Janice Gordon:

You know, it is the buyers, well, the buyers are the ones

Janice Gordon:

that are making the decisions, they're dictating the pace. And

Janice Gordon:

so it's really difficult for salespeople to grasp that

Janice Gordon:

concept. And until they do, they'll always be on the

Janice Gordon:

backfoot. So we need to just relinquish our control over the

Janice Gordon:

situation, we don't have any control, we're always going to

Janice Gordon:

be followers. And that's the way of the world now. But the better

Janice Gordon:

you are able to follow really closely, eventually, you'll be

Janice Gordon:

anticipating. And Steve Jobs said this years and years ago

Janice Gordon:

about this is the goal of Apple to anticipate needs. And the way

Janice Gordon:

that that happens is that you relinquish control first

Janice Gordon:

understand the world we're in right now. And this is it.

Janice Gordon:have the world you had in the:Janice Gordon:

the naughties that has gone, the internet, we've already sold on

Janice Gordon:

to that informations already out there. There's no point shutting

Janice Gordon:

the gate because it's already bolted. This is the world that

Janice Gordon:

we're in. So we are followers, but your job is to follow really

Janice Gordon:

close. As soon as they make a step, you make an a step,

Janice Gordon:

eventually, you're going to learn the dance, you're going to

Janice Gordon:

learn the buyers and the customers dance, because you've

Janice Gordon:

been following so close. They're the leaders, they're leading in

Janice Gordon:

the dance. And once you've got there, you're going to be able

Janice Gordon:

to anticipate the next step. And then once you've got there,

Janice Gordon:

you're going to be able to anticipate the next three steps

Janice Gordon:

and guide them through the next three steps. And then once

Janice Gordon:

you've got there, you're developing a relationship into a

Janice Gordon:

partnership, so that you're both entwined. But the fact is, you

Janice Gordon:

have to learn their language. It's like going to another

Janice Gordon:

country, as we have English people often do, and expect

Janice Gordon:

everyone to speak English, that doesn't go, you're in someone

Janice Gordon:

else's country. So you need to learn their language, if you

Janice Gordon:

want to sell to them. And you need to start speaking their

Janice Gordon:

language. And eventually, you'll know the language. So well,

Janice Gordon:

you'll be talking humor, you'll be you'll know the nuances,

Janice Gordon:

you'll be leading in the joke, and they'll all get it. But it

Janice Gordon:

takes time for that to happen. And what you've got to do as a

Janice Gordon:

seller is invest in that time.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, that is so powerful. Because one thing that

Wesleyne Greer:

you said that's so interesting is when you go to another

Wesleyne Greer:

country, don't expect someone to speak your language, right? Like

Wesleyne Greer:

when I go to London, I don't expect for you guys to drive on

Wesleyne Greer:

the same side of the road that I do, I have to know that, hey,

Wesleyne Greer:

I'm in your world, I can't just barrel down the road and drive

Wesleyne Greer:

on the wrong side of the road. Right. And so really removing

Wesleyne Greer:

yourself. And one of the things that I really think is so

Wesleyne Greer:

important is if you're thinking about the next step, your next

Wesleyne Greer:

question what you should do next, you're not immersed in

Wesleyne Greer:

their world, right? If you're have any apprehensions about

Wesleyne Greer:

you, the seller or the company or the product, you're doing it

Wesleyne Greer:

wrong. Yeah, absolutely.

Janice Gordon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Wesleyne Greer:

So you've written a couple books. Tell us

Wesleyne Greer:

about the business evolution. What is that all about?

Janice Gordon:siness evolution published in:Janice Gordon:

it was came out of the experience I was actually I was

Janice Gordon:

I went into entrepreneurship and had a restaurant on bar. I

Janice Gordon:

employ 20 staff. What I learned was there was many others that

Janice Gordon:

went out of business. This was just after the economic crash.

Janice Gordon:

And we were still growing. And the reason for that was applying

Janice Gordon:

some of these strategies. When I came out of the business, I

Janice Gordon:

realized what it was that created that kind of essential

Janice Gordon:

value. We were using social media before a lot of these

Janice Gordon:

companies, businesses had been in business 10 years, they were

Janice Gordon:

doing things that the way that they used to do, they've always

Janice Gordon:

done them. We were new incumbents. So we had adopted

Janice Gordon:

the new ways of engaging our customers. Plus, I had come out

Janice Gordon:

of customer experience. So I realized that customers were

Janice Gordon:

primary, I stayed close. Remember, I was talking about

Janice Gordon:

staying really close to the customers. So I created great

Janice Gordon:

relationships with a unique group of customers that had

Janice Gordon:

other groups that they were the key influences in. So all I had

Janice Gordon:

to do was tell my key group of people what was going on, and

Janice Gordon:

they would invite other people from their groups, I understood,

Janice Gordon:

that's the way it worked. And it was very personable, I knew them

Janice Gordon:

by you know, first name, but I stayed in regular contact with

Janice Gordon:

them. So all of these things that I learned so and I came up

Janice Gordon:

with the four essential piece, which was personality, you've

Janice Gordon:

got to put your personality into your business, even if you're an

Janice Gordon:

employee, you've got to leave with your own unique personality

Janice Gordon:

purpose, you've got to understand why you're doing it.

Janice Gordon:

And I also talk about what you can do that no one else can do

Janice Gordon:

in the way you do it really important. And then Pleasure is

Janice Gordon:

all about the customer experience. What's your

Janice Gordon:

pleasure, sir? How can I make life better for you? So it's all

Janice Gordon:

about the focused on your customers. Now, if you're an

Janice Gordon:

employee, it's the focus on your employees that create the

Janice Gordon:

customer experience for your customers. So it's about giving

Janice Gordon:

pleasure, how do I do that, and then processes the fourth

Janice Gordon:

essential P I discovered in business because I created a

Janice Gordon:

business association and supported lots of other

Janice Gordon:

businesses to help them to grow through the difficulties having

Janice Gordon:

the MBA background. So process is that we often create

Janice Gordon:

processes based on where we've been before. So Will people or

Janice Gordon:

will have worked for large companies, they understand the

Janice Gordon:

process, they adopt that process for a small business, it doesn't

Janice Gordon:

work, but also understanding processes that we design, or

Janice Gordon:

what we understand. And when a customer comes to your website

Janice Gordon:

or in through your doors, it makes sense to you from your

Janice Gordon:

position. From your perspective, it's completely nonsense to the

Janice Gordon:

customer. From their perspective, they don't know

Janice Gordon:

where to go, you haven't given them clear directions. So your

Janice Gordon:

processes are blocking your customers from doing business

Janice Gordon:

with you. So it's really about understanding how you can create

Janice Gordon:

processes to give customer excellence, to give great

Janice Gordon:

experiences, to make it really easy and frictionless and easy

Janice Gordon:

for your customers.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow. And that was almost a whole 10 years ago.

Wesleyne Greer:

And it sounds like a lot of the principles that you use as a

Wesleyne Greer:

business owner of you know, this bar and restaurant, you're still

Wesleyne Greer:

able to apply to your clients today. And so when you think

Wesleyne Greer:

about your very vast and diverse career, the time you were in the

Wesleyne Greer:

textiles, industry, financial services, owning your own

Wesleyne Greer:

business, and now as a speaker and a consultant, give me an

Wesleyne Greer:

experience that you feel changed the trajectory of your career,

Janice Gordon:

one experience.

Wesleyne Greer:

I know it's hard.

Janice Gordon:

What changed my trajectory? Was the working for

Janice Gordon:

the customer experience because it was this the missing leg.

Janice Gordon:

That's the thing that really changed it. But every time I

Janice Gordon:

kind of revisit this every year, you know, you do your business

Janice Gordon:

plan, you think, Am I doing the right thing? Am I in the right?

Janice Gordon:

It just almost I'm ahead of my time, as you say with the book

Janice Gordon:

that's still relevant now. But also the fact that if you want

Janice Gordon:

to reimagine your sales revenue, you have to focus on customer

Janice Gordon:

experience. So I've been with this for last 17 years talking

Janice Gordon:

about the relationship between customer experience and sales

Janice Gordon:

and talking about, you know, customer centricity. You've got

Janice Gordon:

to put your customers first you've got to understand their

Janice Gordon:

language, all of these things is what people are beginning to

Janice Gordon:

work with. There's lots more stats out there. That's proven

Janice Gordon:

what I I've been talking about for a long time. So I think it's

Janice Gordon:

really those things really.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, so you're a complete early adopter, because

Wesleyne Greer:

17 years ago, you were thinking about this customer experience

Wesleyne Greer:

that everybody's jumping on the bandwagon with today, right?

Wesleyne Greer:

They're all like yes, yes, yes, customer focus, do this do that.

Wesleyne Greer:

But you were a very early adopter of this. You've also

Wesleyne Greer:

recently been featured or written co authored another book

Wesleyne Greer:

tell us about that

Janice Gordon:

heals two deals, how women are dominating b2b

Janice Gordon:

sales. And this was from Heidi Solomon auric. Has girls who

Janice Gordon:

sell and girls who sell is to encourage school you EVA'S into

Janice Gordon:

sales, and really help them to think about sales as a serious

Janice Gordon:

career option. And so she's thinking, how can I get the word

Janice Gordon:

out and decided that which she would pull together women sales

Janice Gordon:

professionals that have different stories to tell, it's

Janice Gordon:

an excellent book, and really inspiring it is for women that

Janice Gordon:

are thinking about going into sales. But I also think it's for

Janice Gordon:

women that already in sales, it's very inspiring stories, and

Janice Gordon:

helps you to see that you're not alone. Whatever experience you

Janice Gordon:

have had, it is in the books, someone's had it before there is

Janice Gordon:

a community of women. The thing is, I find out that scale

Janice Gordon:

yourselves podcast, I interview 50% Women 20% ethnic minorities,

Janice Gordon:

because it's important that their voices heard, I find it

Janice Gordon:

difficult to find the equal amount of men and women and I

Janice Gordon:

know you're shaking your head here, women are not as visible.

Janice Gordon:

Well, one reason is there aren't as many women in sales, because

Janice Gordon:

we've been actively discouraged. And there's lots of barriers to

Janice Gordon:

women getting into sales. So it's great what Heidi is doing a

Janice Gordon:

many other I'm part of women's sales pro, and they you know,

Janice Gordon:

Lori Richardson is doing incredible work, you'll Conrad

Janice Gordon:

kind of started all of this with the campaign of getting more

Janice Gordon:

women on sales stages. So there's a lot of forerunners to

Janice Gordon:

all of this. But it's we've really got to keep the pressure

Janice Gordon:

up the stats of 17% women sales leaders is absolutely poor and

Janice Gordon:

hasn't changed for the last 10 years, or stats or 30% Women in

Janice Gordon:

sales at that hasn't changed. The fact that you know, 50% of

Janice Gordon:

salespeople do not hit target means that there's something

Janice Gordon:

wrong in the system in the way that we're applying the system.

Janice Gordon:

It's broken, it doesn't work. And I could have a whole podcast

Janice Gordon:

on that one as well. But women in sales are the highest

Janice Gordon:

achievers and performers. So you know, you've got on one side

Janice Gordon:

where women are great sellers. And on the other side where

Janice Gordon:

there's all these barriers. So there's still a lot of work to

Janice Gordon:

be done.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, I can hear your passion about women in

Wesleyne Greer:

sales, ethnic minorities in sales. And it's so true. There's

Wesleyne Greer:

a community that I'm a part of, and they have forums throughout

Wesleyne Greer:

the year. And so in January, the kickoff that they had, I was

Wesleyne Greer:

like, you don't have any ethnic minority speaking. And they're

Wesleyne Greer:

like, oh, my gosh, was lean, we've been trying, but we can't

Wesleyne Greer:

find any, I'm like you're not trying hard enough. So I

Wesleyne Greer:

literally combed through my LinkedIn, and it was so hard for

Wesleyne Greer:

me to find CROs VPs of sales that were ethnic minorities,

Wesleyne Greer:

right, or even women. And so it is a very big challenge that

Wesleyne Greer:

we're working through. And I always say that the problem is

Wesleyne Greer:

we don't have enough entry level women in sales. And then when we

Wesleyne Greer:

get them in sales, we're not supporting them enough so that

Wesleyne Greer:

they want to stay and make this a career and move up their

Wesleyne Greer:

ladder. So there's so many multifaceted challenges that we

Wesleyne Greer:

have there.

Janice Gordon:

Absolutely, absolutely. We often have

Janice Gordon:

companies that will recruit more women, but nothing changes in

Janice Gordon:

the culture. The Yes. How's that

Wesleyne Greer:

gonna work? Yes. When they just they just check

Wesleyne Greer:

the box on the diversity, right? They say okay, yeah, we've hired

Wesleyne Greer:

more women with hire more ethnic minorities, and Okay, so we've

Wesleyne Greer:

done what we needed to do, but then they leave in nine months.

Wesleyne Greer:

No, you haven't done what you need to do you have a revolving

Wesleyne Greer:

door? Yeah, absolutely. So when you think about your very

Wesleyne Greer:

successful and amazing career, I'm gonna pin you down. For one

Wesleyne Greer:

thing again, what is one thing you're most proud of

Wesleyne Greer:

accomplishing personally or professionally?

Janice Gordon:

Gosh. I'm not normally what so personally and

Janice Gordon:

professionally, I think I can probably have to come on.

Janice Gordon:

Personally, I'm proud that I have lived in different parts of

Janice Gordon:

the world and traveled to different parts of the world,

Janice Gordon:

from a young age. That's created a very different mindsets that

Janice Gordon:

I'm comfortable of being the only in a room, I see that as an

Janice Gordon:

opportunity. I'm working the room when I go in the room, but

Janice Gordon:

it's taken a lot to get to that stage. But I got to that stage

Janice Gordon:

when I was I was young, because we were the only black family in

Janice Gordon:

this village. It was hostile, I can tell you in England, the

Janice Gordon:

only black family in this village for 15 years, you know,

Janice Gordon:

going through the school system, they didn't pay us any favors.

Janice Gordon:

So you know I think when you've had a trial by fire to come out

Janice Gordon:

of that then anything else is really easy. This is no big

Janice Gordon:

deal. But having travelled around the world I mean, you

Janice Gordon:

could have a mindset of these difficulties problems everyone's

Janice Gordon:

against you but actually having travelled around the world I

Janice Gordon:

think that my mindset is the absolute opposite in that

Janice Gordon:

everyone is genuinely good, not evil and unless proven

Janice Gordon:

otherwise. Really. I'm going to treat everyone with respect and

Janice Gordon:

and I love people I love traveling. I love exploring new

Janice Gordon:

things. So I think per Ultimately, I'm grateful for all

Janice Gordon:

of that traveling that I have done in my life that's helped to

Janice Gordon:

keep my mind open. And I think professionally, I nowhere near

Janice Gordon:

where I want to be, I'm still striving for a lot more. I mean,

Janice Gordon:

I accept, there are more challenges and barriers for me

Janice Gordon:

than, you know, others, for obvious reasons, but I'm still

Janice Gordon:

campaigning to for parity and openness of other people, I

Janice Gordon:

think you've got to give what you expect to receive from

Janice Gordon:

people. And I love what I'm doing, I love when I go in, and

Janice Gordon:

I'm the only in a room and I'm sitting around I'm training and

Janice Gordon:

talking to, you know, which is where if we're talking about

Janice Gordon:

sales are going to be mainly white men. And you know, one or

Janice Gordon:

two might be hostile to me also, but by the end of the session,

Janice Gordon:

you know, we're best friends, you know, and because if I can

Janice Gordon:

transfer some knowledge, some experience, and often it's down

Janice Gordon:

to certain words without, and that enables another salesperson

Janice Gordon:

to do really well enables another person to get on board

Janice Gordon:

with the language of their customers to really succeed in

Janice Gordon:

their work means they succeed in their life for their families,

Janice Gordon:

if I can help somebody do that, if I can help a business grow by

Janice Gordon:

an additional 50%, by giving them knowledge of how to become

Janice Gordon:

customer centric, or how to get your customers have a seat at

Janice Gordon:

your table, how to use their information to create and

Janice Gordon:

innovate products and services that the customers are going to

Janice Gordon:

buy, not only now but into the future, how I can future proof

Janice Gordon:

organizing. If I can do that, then oh my gosh, my you know,

Janice Gordon:

I'm happy, you know, and so the end of the day, because that's

Janice Gordon:

real legacy that's really making a difference not only to

Janice Gordon:

individuals, but businesses, but to their customers as well,

Janice Gordon:

which is I love.

Wesleyne Greer:

Wow, that is awesome. And I love how your

Wesleyne Greer:

personal experiences have really translated the way that you work

Wesleyne Greer:

the way that you see the world and even has translated into you

Wesleyne Greer:

professionally, right? Like, you're like, hey, I kind of had

Wesleyne Greer:

to develop a thick skin when I was younger. And because of

Wesleyne Greer:

that, that's what allows me to go be the only to show up in

Wesleyne Greer:

these rooms and really, really help those people who are like,

Wesleyne Greer:

Who are you and they're your raving fans at the end. I love

Wesleyne Greer:

that when you walk in the room. And they're like, Who is this

Wesleyne Greer:

another sales trainer? I don't want to hear the same stuff,

Wesleyne Greer:

blah, blah, blah. And then at the end, it's like, man, you

Wesleyne Greer:

really transformed the way that I'm thinking you've really

Wesleyne Greer:

challenged me.

Janice Gordon:

Yeah. And you know, I don't classify myself as

Janice Gordon:

a sales training because I do talk about sales training

Janice Gordon:

doesn't want Oh, yeah.

Wesleyne Greer:

That's a whole nother thing. So I say it all

Wesleyne Greer:

the time. Sales Training doesn't work.

Janice Gordon:

It doesn't work. Absolutely. But you know, like

Janice Gordon:

really getting sellers to think more like their buyers.

Janice Gordon:

Absolutely. Yes.

Wesleyne Greer:

Awesome. Well, Janet, this has been an amazing,

Wesleyne Greer:

amazing conversation. What is the one best way people can get

Wesleyne Greer:

in touch with you?

Janice Gordon:

LinkedIn, Janice B. Gordon, don't forget my B.

Janice Gordon:

Janice B. Gordon. If you put that in Google LinkedIn, your

Janice Gordon:

arm on page 123 You're gonna find me

Wesleyne Greer:

awesome. Janice B. Gordon, she shows up and has

Wesleyne Greer:

valuable content that you should definitely consume on LinkedIn.

Wesleyne Greer:

So thank you again, Janice. This has been an amazing

Wesleyne Greer:

conversation. I feel like I am all deep into this world of

Wesleyne Greer:

customer experience and being very solution focused. Thank you

Wesleyne Greer:

so much for your time, your talent and your expertise today.

Janice Gordon:

It's been a pleasure. Wesleyne. Thank you so

Janice Gordon:

much for inviting me on your wonderful podcast and keep doing

Janice Gordon:

the great work.

Wesleyne Greer:

Thank you so much. And that was another

Wesleyne Greer:

episode of the transform your sales podcast and remember and

Wesleyne Greer:

all that you do, think about how science and sales work together

Wesleyne Greer:

to really transform your sales. Until next time. Thank you for

Wesleyne Greer:

joining us today on the snack sized sales podcast. If you

Wesleyne Greer:

enjoyed this episode, subscribe and leave us a review. Learn how

Wesleyne Greer:

to continue increasing your bottom line by getting

Wesleyne Greer:

simplified sales strategies delivered to your inbox weekly

Wesleyne Greer:

by going to www dot snack sized sales.com. Trust me, your bank

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